NEW - WWII Europa Scenario released!

[AGRICOLA]

A belated warm welcome to Poly.

I downloaded your scen and did a bit of testing before starting play. I thought that I should pass the following on to you in case you might find it a good idea to add some house rules. The following is from the Operational Summary that I write for most of the scens that I play.

INITIAL ANALYSIS, COMMENTS AND COURSE OF ACTION

A careful study of the the Readme, analysis of the capabilities of all units and the strategic situation leads to some very interesting conclusions and possibilities. The following approach will be taken in keeping with my policy that the way to win is to first concentrate on defence in order to preserve units and wear down the enemy, and only take the offensive when the odds are greatly in my favour.


A. The Allies are in a f***ing mess. As they have only 2 Barracks, the first priority will be to build one in most cities. I prefer not to I waste shields on building non-vet cannon fodder.

B. Unneeded city improvements will be sold off immediately: City Walls in rear areas, Hospitals, Tram Systems etc.. That should raise 1000+ gold.

C. In the absence of house rules, the following tactics will be used.
- Rotterdam will be the "Trading City". One can't beat the enemy city plus ocean voyage bonuses. A freight (hides) from New York brings ~190 gold and 1 trade arrow if delivered to London and 450+ gold plus 4 trade arrows from Rotterdam. That's a pretty fair return on a 50 shield unit. Delivering 3 or 4 per turn gets the Allies a tech each turn.
- Freights will be rehomed as needed.
- Transatlantic airlifts will be used.
- Freighters will be chained
- Submarine and fighter traps will be established as soon as there are adequate aircraft and ships.

D. Non-vet units which stand little or no chance against the Axis will be disbanded to IRB vet units which can win battles.

E. Within 2 turns Mosul will be able to supply Africa and the Middle East with 1 vet Mech Inf per turn on a continuing basis.

F. Tobruk will be razed and the road to Alexandria will be pillaged. That'll slow Rommel to a crawl. All possible units will be withdrawn to Alexandria and Cairo. Both of these are much more defensible than Tobruk.

G. With great reluctance, US aircraft will not be used to provide immediate air cover for US naval units. However, if the Axis attack anything bigger than a US destroyer, all bets are off. Roosevelt will not put up with that kind of naked aggression.

[Cyrion]

Warning to Werd: don't consider what Agricola will do to your scen as the performance of the common civ player! He is known for being, sometimes, rather efficient...

And welcome to Poly!

[Eivind IV]

Like I told you on civfanatics, it's possible to implement season changes without getting Africa looking winterised, by changing only the terrain ingame you want winterised via mapcopy. This can be done with turn based events. Check out the latest version of Blitzkrieg 1936 for reference on how I did it.

[MacGalleo]

Originally posted by Werd100


Are you developing your game at the moment or is it finished? If finished where can I find it?
When does your game start? I looked at making one starting in 1938 or 1939 but there seemed too many nations, later in the war is simpler! Let me know what you think of my effort and we can swap ideas!

I am developping my scenario at the moment. It would begin in april 1940.

[fairline]

Originally posted by Werd100
BTW I gather you are a Welshman in England. I am an Englishman in Wales, wonder who got the best deal?

Whereabouts in Wales? IMHO, anywhere outside of the shining metropolis of Cardiff is sheep-infested bandit country

[fairline]

Originally posted by Cyrion
Warning to Werd: don't consider what Agricola will do to your scen as the performance of the common civ player! He is known for being, sometimes, rather efficient...

In the same manner that a Cray supercomputer is 'efficient'

[McMonkey]

Group reply to yaal

Kurt
I wanted to use as many authentic looking graphics and the 63 (?) units available ment there was no room for Pz1 - Tiger plus every Hunter and Assaulgun inbetween. The best solution seemed a generic Medium and Heavy tank per nation (plus a few other vehicles) and swap the graphics as you go. I may have been a bit greedy (10sih gifs) but I did not want to miss out too many gorgeous graphics!
Would realy like to hear what you think mate!

Agricola
I like the idea of an initial analysis and course. Can help you get your bearings in a big scenario, especially with long AI turns. The main reason the Allies only move a few units on turn one is so the player can get used to the map and then at his leisure start the first (long) AI turn. I find scenarios that launch straight into the players turn can be confusing as to what to do first, and ones that launch straight into the AI turn leave me a bit shellshocked. At least the player can react to the AIs ageression, giving the player some focus.
House rules would probably be a good idea. I built the game with some house rules hardwired into my brain (historical accuracy) but I did not want to dictate to others. I wanted the Battle of the Atlantic to be a neseccity, so gamey concepts like chaining ships makes me a bit sad! I take your point though. House Rules = Would it be historically viable/does it make you feel warm and happy inside!
Ps. Tobruk should be held to the last man!

Cyrion
Thanks for the welcome and the advice, softened the blow a bit! Will not spend all night crying into my poridge now! He he.

Eivind
Will do good buddy. Version 2 will see the Eastern Front frozen over, thank god I'll be down in the med liberating peasants daughters!

MacGalleo
1940, cool. Are you running a development thread? Could share a few ideas!

Fairline
Who you calling a bandit?
Nah, only kidding I'm living in Llanrumney (digging for Cpn Morgans treasure), originally I'm from Hastings (1066 an all that).

[AGRICOLA]

@Cyrion & fairline
I'm red-faced with embarrassment from your comments. Thanks.

@ Werd100

Tobruk should be held to the last man!

No way. Churchill was nuts to hang on to that fleabitten desert hellhole at the end of a long supply line (say I as I change my hat to one that is 2 sizes larger).

I wanted the Battle of the Atlantic to be a neseccity, so gamey concepts like chaining ships makes me a bit sad.

Sorry, but the way the scen is set up at present, the Battle of the Atlantic can easily be avoided with correct play. Aircraft have sufficient range to provide freighters with air cover all the way across, whether chaining is or is not used.

You could create a genuine Battle of the Atlantic by giving subs the 'can attack aircraft' flag. That would simulate their ability to attack ships despite air cover. After all, there is no air cover at night.

I've suggested this before but no designer has yet taken me up on the idea.

[McMonkey]

Random pics

I'm working on another little project at the moment (un civ related) and found these cool pics of a German U-boat washed up on Hastings beach in 1919. Nothing to do with the thread or CivII realy but I thought they were realy cool!

[McMonkey]

Too random

And the other.

[McMonkey]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
@Cyrion & fairline
I'm red-faced with embarrassment from your comments. Thanks.

@ Werd100

No way. Churchill was nuts to hang on to that fleabitten desert hellhole at the end of a long supply line (say I as I change my hat to one that is 2 sizes larger).



Sorry, but the way the scen is set up at present, the Battle of the Atlantic can easily be avoided with correct play. Aircraft have sufficient range to provide freighters with air cover all the way across, whether chaining is or is not used.

You could create a genuine Battle of the Atlantic by giving subs the 'can attack aircraft' flag. That would simulate their ability to attack ships despite air cover. After all, there is no air cover at night.

I've suggested this before but no designer has yet taken me up on the idea.

I did not realise it was possible for subs to attack aircraft, the thought had never entered my head. Its brilliant, I love the idea and will deffinately be putting it in version 2 (or even 1.2 update!). I did consider making a no air cover house rule but that seemed a bit daft/hard to self enforce. This gets around that problem. I also tried of event creating Stukas in the mid Atlantic area (suicide mission due to range!) to attack convoys that had air cover and other shipping, but this just resulted in 'phantom Stukas' flying across Britain and THROUGH British cities! Weird!!!
I would like to stop airlifts between USA and Britain also. I'm not sure if it is worth making a house rule about trading with the Axis, I suppose its up to the individual. My concept when making the game was to make the Battle of the Atlantic hard and as necessary as possible.
Please keep up the critisism, without it I cannot improve the game for version 2!

Ps. Anyone seen withdrawing from Tobruk will be court-martialled!

[AGRICOLA]

Glad you like the idea. I'm going to make the change in rules and will report back.


P.S. Only losing generals get sacked and court-martialled. I'm doing a strategic withdrawal.

[Boco]

Werd100, if you want him to hang on to Tobruk, place an important WoW in it. Maybe something to do with happiness. This avoids a rule, and lets Agricola decide whether razing is worth the cost.

[Edit]
Maybe edit improvement and/or unit costs. Many players will try to get rich (money and shields) quick by selling improvements and disbanding units. Make the obvious candidates dirt cheap. Perhaps don't allow the AI to build them.

[McMonkey]

To be honest I'm not that bothered about Tobruk, I would hold onto it because thats what would have been expected at the time. I think Agricola is probably right, it is isolated, at the end of stretched supply lines and a tactical withdrawal to a better defensive possition where he can build up reserves would make more sense that wasting units in a battle for a hamlet! I am a cautious player too (as was Monty) and like to build up my reserves in an orderly fashon until I'm certain of victory, I'm no Rommel!
The idea of placing WoW in critical locations was key to me when building the game. For example I placed Control of Norway (+2 movement to all ships) in Oslo to tempt the allied player into an alternative history style attack to tame the U-Boats. It has just occured to me that I did not mention things like that in the Read Me so the player is unlikely to know unless they cheat. Doh!
Thats another revision for version 2.

I did have a few problems with city improvements as the Axis AI was making every city build them and was not building any units! This is another thing to sort out in version 2. I don't like too many house rules. Selling off improvements seems like a valid tactic, I suppose it is up to the player wheter they wish to observe rules. Maybe I'll call them Scenario suggestions and everyone will be happy! I will give this some thought.

[Boco]

Originally posted by Werd100
The idea of placing WoW in critical locations was key to me when building the game. For example I placed Control of Norway (+2 movement to all ships) in Oslo to tempt the allied player into an alternative history style attack to tame the U-Boats.

Sorry for the too-basic advice re Tobruk. AFAIK, Tobruk was held to keep the Axis out of Egypt. It was feared that if the Axis penetrated too far and too long into Egypt, a rebellion could erupt in cities along the Nile. That threat didn't seem to materialize during the brief German drive to El Alamein, but I don't know enough about what measures the Brits took to keep Egyptians friendly.

You've probably already done this, but if you want sell-offs to be a valid tactic, make sure you alpha test this in your scenario to make sure that gameplay remains balanced. Agricola is well beyond the rest of us in playing skill, but this particular tactic is common among mortals as well.