First Strike PBEM

[academia]

Originally posted by Eivind IV
Somehow two rules has vanished from the list I made:

Addition to #8 (that answers you question 1 Alej):
"No civs may attack the non aligned, unless there's ww3 situation"

And another rule (that answers your request for talks, mikko):
"China may only align themself in a ww3 situation, and only with the defender."

And of course you may invade Russia, if you want to start ww3.

i see... so in the military issue i only have two options:
1) fight proxy wars
2) ww3

is that correct?
i´m sorry if i sound repetitive, but i wanna be 100% sure about this topic

[Eivind IV]

Correct. Remember you play against humans, and they would obviously not accept random expansion on players' part.

[academia]

Originally posted by Eivind IV
Correct. Remember you play against humans, and they would obviously not accept random expansion on players' part.

good. let´s play then!

[Eivind IV]

Deng Xiaoping declares Mao's rule dead, and announces that his country will open for economic reforms, start exporting Chinese goods, and that he welcomes every market oriented power to invest in Chinese markets.

[ISeeALL]

Guys, if I did something against the rules, sorry, I will replay the turn. Here is ther report.


US declares war on USSR. Pro-soviet nations declare war on USA.

Moskva nuked with ICBM
Managua nuked with MRBM and captured with security forces
La-Habana nuked with MRBM and captured by Attack Helicopter
Leningrad nuked with ICBM
East Berlin nuked with ICBM and captured by Heavy Troops. Germany is united.
Leipzig is nuked with ICBM and captured by M-48 Patton
Sevastopol nuked with ICBM, 2 nearby ships destroyed
Praha nuked with ICBM and captured by Light Troops, CKD captured

Soviet transport with 2 vans sunk west of China (224, 74)
Unsuccessful attack of Long Range Heavy Bomber and Jet Bomber on Gdansk

I have a question to Eivind IV: why does Long Range Bomber fail to defeat SAM? SAM has defense value 11, doubled vs air to make 22. Bomber has attack value of 42. Why does SAM win with yellow lives left?

[Eivind IV]

There's nothing in the rules that say you can't start a war, but how realistic it is, is one question, another one is how this brings any fun to the PBEM. A war declaration on turn one (and one leading to a nuclear holocaust at that) is something we seldom do in PBEMs. There's all kind of issues this leads to. For sure Russia will retaliate against NATO cities, and for sure global warming will occur.

This isn't neccessary a war scenario, it's more a struggle to keep the peace. But if war is what you really want then by all means (event though it's completely a-historical and unrealistic)...

But again, this kind of ruins the game. If you still wish to continue playing from this turn, then China will declare war on the USA and it's allies as a sign of solidarity to the Soviet Union.

Have you even consulted with the Euroepan NATO?

1. For future games, or for this, I want to include another house rule - NATO can only declare war if both NATO civs agree.

2. I'm also thinking of introducing a win point system for this scenario. For example you can get points for economic gains (trade), and new techs, and points for taking cities with conventional forces, and minus points for using nukes. The team with the most points win the game. That way a nuclear holocaust won't win the game, as it most too often does. Also, declaring a war should cost you a lot of victory points.

Does this sound like a good idea. And if this is feasable, any suggestions how to implement this?

I think you should replay, and we introduce the NATO team war declaration rule, and a win point system.

3. Maybe we could even introduce a similar rule as the familiar one turn mobilization rule - meaning you CAN sneak attack, but nukes to be used only on the second turn.

-----------------

To answer you question regarding Heavy Bomber, you must accept some losses sometimes in order to win battles. That goes for all my scens. Also, very important to make calculations before attacking, studying for defensive terrain etc.

[academia]

well, the european NATO command is shocked by this savage attack carried out by the USA. we initially don´t support this action... we´d rather wait for the soviet response first (if someone survived the nuclear attack in moscow )

[Nilat]

This scenario is based on real events. Thus you may assume that a thermonuclear war never happened because you aren't a mutant/dead and you don't live in an arid nuclear plain.

We are recreating the Cold War in this PBEM, please replay your turn. You have no real casus belli on me to go straight to defcon 1.

[academia]

Originally posted by Nilat
We are recreating the Cold War in this PBEM, please replay your turn. You have no real casus belli on me to go straight to defcon 1.

you are a dirty communist pig!!! what other reason does he need?


nah, seriously... i support this idea:

Maybe we could even introduce a similar rule as the familiar one turn mobilization rule - meaning you CAN sneak attack, but nukes to be used only on the second turn.

[Eivind IV]

Yeah, another rule could be that you must have a casus belli to delcare war - at least for NATO.

[Eivind IV]

Ok, I've worked out a system. Tell me what you think:

Diplomacy points
01. -50 points for declaring war without a legitimate casus belli.
02. -25 for provoking the other civ to declare war.

Civilised points
03. +0,5 point for every trade route established (China gets +1).
04. -1 point for every pollution square within you territory. In case of a nuclear attack the attacker get's -1 point for every pollution square created in enemy territory (points given back upon cleaning).

Technological points
05. +1 point for every civil tech discovered.
06. -1 point for every military tech discovered.

War points
07. -10 points for every nuke used (minus points for caused pollution in adition).
08. +2 points for every city won through proxy war.
09. +1 point for capturing a human city using conventional weapons.
10. -5 point for capturing a human city using nuclear weapons.
11. +10 points for capturing an enemy capitol city (points lost upon enemy recapture).
12. -10 points for losing capitol city (points won back upon recapture).


The civ with most victory points upon ended game wins. In this respect the NATO civs compete. Score to be kept in full honesty between the players during the game.

[academia]

well, i find this point system weird... and we´ve never tried it before in a pbem. but might work out... i feel that it can really help us avoid a nuclear holocaust.

it will require a change of mind in all the players... it´s a new point of view. but in this games where we have nukes... well, this system might be the solution.

i´m not 100% sure about it, but i´m willing to try it!!

[Nilat]

I like the concept but something is bothering me and I can't put my finger on it. Oh well, might just be the hunger I have right now Lets do it then!

[Eivind IV]

Brilliant. I have a lot of faith in this system. I will edit post #1 with the new house rules and this win point system.

Then I suggest ISeeAll replays, and adheres to a less radical line from now on .

[Eivind IV]

House rules added, as well as the victory point rules, to post #1. Everyone must add their point sitution in all their turn posts. Everyone start at zero.