The Korean War Development Thread

[McMonkey]

This is an excellent scenario Patine. So far I have played as far as the UN capture of Pyongyang and will soon be pursuing the beaten North Koreans to the Yalu River and my troops should be home by Christmas...unless something unexpected happens

I think the Inchon landings can be sorted with a couple more Marines, no NK bribers plus a US tank and a bit of air support. The Marines to the SW of Inchon should be spawned in an Urban square too.

After Inchon the game runs a lot more smoothly. My only minor criticism is the way the NK army just disappears. A few more units in the NW of Korea would spice things up a bit.

I love Fairline's units. The reinforcements that appear in Pusan every few turns make for a colourful game.

A few minor notes:
-Instead of 88mm AA guns I would just call them Air defences or AA battery.

-I think there are a few too many choppers spawned. In Korea most helicopters were used in the utility role and for medevac. Having masses of gunships did not happen until the Vietnam War.

-Some of the UN infantry could have better offensive stats. The tanks are a bit too weak. The Pershing fares badly against the Su-76! The Corsair is a bit puny too.

-A few more hills in the south would allow the player to send the UN infantry into the hills to form a defensive perimeter around Pusan. Japan needs a few terrain features too although it is not directly involved in the war.

I think so far this is a great scenario, it has the one more turn factor! Just needs a bit of tweaking at the start but once it gets going it is fine. I am looking forward to find out what happens next when I play tomorrow

[McMonkey]

I have been away for a few days but before I left I triggered the Chinese intervention. If I was you I would scrap the border posts as this means the player has to attack China. I would start the Chinese intervention when the player captures one of the northern NK cities near the Chinese border, that way it is the Chinese who decide to attack the UN rather than UN aggression against China.

I have only played one turn against the Chinese and to be honest it was not quite what I was expecting. I think this could be sorted fairly easily. Firstly I would create more Chinese infiltrators in the hills behind the UN lines. You could also beef up their stats. One thing I did notice was that the Chinese had a lot of JS-2 and ISU-152. As far as I know their initial force was mainly infantry, it was the NK Army that used Soviet style armoured tactics.

As I said before, the game is very enjoyable and if you can fix up these few problems I think it will be ready to release as a finished scenario. I will carry on my test tomorrow.

[Patine]

Sorry for not responding quicker; I've been a tad busy. You've given some good advice, and just a few notes, though. There's a flag-based trigger that activates China after a certain number of NK cities have been captured, and then wipes the Chinese Border civ (the one that just has border posts), as well as creates a whole bunch of Chinese units. This is in addition to crossing the border as a way of triggering the Chinese. Though I agree, some of the stats and terrain could be altered a bit. I'll have to look into this...

[Patine]

I've picked this up again, after being 'distracted' by other things the last little while. I've been looking over McMonkey's last few posts, and a few previous, and I hope to have something workable in short order.

[Patine]

I just returned to working on this after a bit of being quite busy, and had an idea. I thought of putting the reinforcements in Kitakyushu, in Japan, and having enough transports and carriers with enough move to move them to Pusan in one turn. I've noticed with my own and others' playtests, Pusan often falls before reinforcements arrive, with the player unable to stop it, especially at Deity. Any thoughts on this idea, anyone?

[GhostOfDisco]

I'd say make it an "alternative route," that reinforcements arrive in Kitakyushu only if Pusan falls (i.e. it's a spawn point after the Pusan coordinates in the CREATEUNIT spawn point list.) That way you don't have to move the transports and such if you can keep Pusan.

[Patine]

That is definitely a good idea, Ghost. It would encourage the player to hold onto Pusan to avoid unnecessary trips, but not doom the player to complete failure in the first two turns.

[himasaram]

Originally posted by GhostOfDisco
I'd say make it an "alternative route," that reinforcements arrive in Kitakyushu only if Pusan falls (i.e. it's a spawn point after the Pusan coordinates in the CREATEUNIT spawn point list.) That way you don't have to move the transports and such if you can keep Pusan.

Just one historical correctness nitpick: The city of Kitakyushu didn't exist before 1963. The city that preceeded it was "Kokura" - which is now a district of Kitakyushu - so I suggest using that instead.

[Patine]

Will make that change for the next version. Thanks!

[GhostOfDisco]

Also remember to make the USMC units unbribable! (Started a Korean War game not to long ago - the Marines arrived at Inchon and at least one of them was bribed into defecting to Kim Il Sung. :roll: )

[Patine]

Of course. I plan to make all UN units unbribeable in the next version. I don't recall hearing stories of whole units, not even SK ones, defecting.

[Patine]

I've been very busy lately, but squeezed in a bit of time to finish my Korean War scen. I'm almost done, I just need two last things. First, I've got to lessen the mechanized element of the Chinese forces, as McMonkey pointed out, but that shouldn't take long. Second, I need someone to adjust my Broken and Rocky terrains so they don't look so Mordor-esque and so they fit in with the rest of the terrain and aren't so jarring to the eye. I've attached my two terrain files for anyone who wants to take a try at it.

[McMonkey]

Glad to hear you are back on this one. I enjoyed the playtest. I think the Chinese should still be a big threat, maybe their Infantry could be strong, mobile and numerous. Their intervention should be as strong if not stronger than the very well done initial North Korean invasion!

I will have a go at the terrain if you like?

[Patine]

I do actually agree with Chinese Infantry being more of a threat to the UN forces, and I do have events in place to generate Chinese forces forward of North Korean and some South Korean cities captured from the UN the same way I did the North Korean invasion by generating their forces forward of South Korean cities they captured. Not to mention Chinese units generated every turn after their intervention in China. China did have a few JS-2's and ISU-152's lurking around, but not nearly as many as I portrayed; their number will be cut down greatly.

As for the terrain, by all means, have a crack at it.

BTW, McMonkey, my Boneparte turn's done, but I can't seem to post on the German Civ site. Is anyone else having this problem?

[McMonkey]

Not that I know of. Is there some sort of error message?

Can you post there but not attach the file? If you can post I would ask Hstorical Atze who I believe is the modifier and will know who can check such things.

I will have a go at the terrain tonight if I get a chance.

The main difference between the Chinese and North Koreans was their training and military doctrine. The Chinese had formed their own methods during the Civil War and during their war against Japan.

North Korea's army had been trained by the Russians in blitzkrieg style attacks. Until recently I had always wondered how the North Koreans had been transformed into such fierce communist stormtroopers in such a short space of time (1945-50). Then I read how the core of the NK army had fought for many years for the Chinese in the Civil War and had been released by the Chinese to form the backbone of the new NK army!