DICTATOR ToT - DEVELOPMENT THREAD!

[curtsibling]

Agricola:

Many thanks for the excellent playtest, which is invaluable!



*I will look at what techs are kicking about in each civs list.
I am sure 'Soviet Government' (Rep) will be stuck in the USA's list.

*'American War Industry' (Aut) lets the USA and no-one else
get access to the B29 nuke bomber. I will make these checks.

*I will reduce the tech rate to 40 and see what transpires, the
AI will eventually grab all the historical techs, given the chance.

*Giving the Fallschirmjägers to the Reich with the
'Blitzkrieg Doctrine' tech seems a good answer.

*Also giving Japan the Imperial Paratroops as a starting
tech and taking away their bombers till later seems fair.

*I will look at making America declare war with events after Japan makes her move.
There has been times where I have wondered why the US isn't getting
involved, so 'tech-based' AI choices to begin the American war efforts
are not too good in this case when the baddies are winning!

*I will look at stacking the see too...Units could be stranded survivors!

*The state school is a place of...Indoctrination!

*I am going to give Canada to the US civ - Something I am
not too happy about and I hope it does not offend anyone,
but it is the only way to free up the insane AIs wanderings.

*A Japanese force on the Dutch East Indies area would indeed spice things up!


Patine:

*I am convinced you are right, the Indies should be given to the Commonwealth.
The Japanese AI seems to ignore the neutrals. That cannot do...
The refineries will give the Commonwealth a good tech boost too!

Cheers, guys!
These changes will be made ASAP!

[Tigey]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA


I kept the research rate at 2 turns/tech through deficit financing until the initial $10,000 ran out in Aug 1941. Research then decreased to 4 turns/tech with a small monthly tax deficit. In Dec 1941 research had to be reduced to 5 turns/tech in order to avoid bankruptcy. By Feb '42, the US has researched the following:

Wartime Production (Munitions Plant)
Improved Railroad. (Engineers, now have 40)
Armored Vehicles. (Armored Car, now have 45)
Mass Production (Manufacturing Plant)
Super Battleship. (Super BB, now have 12)
Radar
AA Defences. (AA Unit, now have 10)
Science Research I
Science Research II (University)
Science Research III (Research Complex)
Working on Armament Design III (150 mm Arty, want 50+ as main offensive unit against cities)

Even with building universities, research complexes, banks and stock exchanges, it is going to be difficult to generate enough revenue and keep the research going at a rate of much better than 3 techs per year. This is inadequate for the US to develop weapons at the historical rate. I suspect that the same holds true for AI civs. Perhaps the research paradigm could do with a tweak.

I think the tech paradigm should be kept quite high, I'm of the belief that research selection should mean hard choices for everyone but the richest empire (although whether the AI can keep up should be considered).

Instead, I think it might be worth either re-adding (is that even a word?) a trade unit if a slot can be spared, or setting up a lot more (and much more profitable) trade routes at the start of the game. I found Soviet Steel 2 to flow much more organically after adding in a large number of trade routes at the start, and it served to distinguish the major nations from the rest..

[Sarsstock]

Well as hard as it is to swallow that Canada will be controlled by the US, I know first hand from playtesting its even more unrealistic that Canada invades the US each and every time, and sometimes vice versa. I honestly don't think you have to worry about offending anybody with this decision Curt .

Its probally the best solution to the complete incompetance of the AI.

[AGRICOLA]

Germany, Deity, March 1941

I implemented the following changes before playing:
- Canadian cities are US controlled.
- terrain is stackable.
- Fallschirmjägers linked to Blitzkrieg Doctrine tech.
- tech paradigm changed to 40.


GENERAL COMMENTS

1. This is definitely not a scen for non-vet units. Overall, defences seem to be much stronger than offensive units, probably because virtually all units have Fire Power = 1.


2. IMO, Germany is much too weak to follow its historical sequence of actions.

In the present game, the RAF in Britain was "persuaded" to commit mass suicide in Dec '40 so that London, Newcastle and Glasgow could be captured the same month. However, the available German forces were too weak and too damaged to capture the remaining three cities in the British Isles before March '41.

Meanwhile, British activity in the Med has heated up to the point where major German strength will have to move into the area, particularly the 5 Pocket Battleships and 5 Wespes which did 95% of the fighting in conquering Britain. I don't want to try to take Gib and Malta without these units because, while playing the US, I watched a steady stream of German units get wiped out whenever they tried to attack these hard rocks.

Also, despite discovering a new tech every 2 months, the critical Armament Design III (150 mm Artillery) and Modernised Army (105mm Wespe) techs will become available only in April '41 and July '41, respectively. That eliminates any realistic possibility of duplicating Barbarossa in '41 unless the goal is to kill off as many German units as possible for very little gain.

So, the timetable has slipped by at least a year and I'm not sure whether to tackle the US or Russia in '42 or early '43, AFTER the Brits have been squeezed out of the Med. My gut feel is to go after the US, the most dangerous of all opponents. With defence stronger than offense, I think that there would be minimal difficulty in fending off the Russians if they decide that German-US hostilities are a good time to launch a pre-emptive attack. I'll make sure that the US and Germany are at war as soon as Japan attacks Pearl Harbor.


MISCELLANEOUS

1. It is very late in the development of the scen to bring this up, but I'm bothered by some of the cities that have been labelled Neutral. IMO, the only true neutrals are Sweden, Spain, Turkey and South and Central America. The rest of the neutral cities were really fair game for any power that wanted to take them. Historically, the North African cities were taken by the Allies; the Yugoslav cities were captured by the Germans; the Allies effectively controlled the cities in Iran and Afghanistan; the Japanese captured the East Indies; and the neutral cities in central and southern Africa did as they were told by their various European overlords.

You may want to consider if it would make sense to:
a. Do away with the remaining Allies. Change the cities in Australia and NZ to British.
b. Rename Allies to Independents or whatever, and include all presently neutral cities in Africa, Asia and Yugoslavia in this civ. The Independents would have no alliances but could keep the same type of immobile unit as they presently have.

These changes would make possible a number of historical actions that are now impossible.


2. The Partisan unit seems a mite overpowering with A=4, D=2, HP=6 and FP=2, probably for the benefit of China in its war with Japan. The fire power may be a bit extreme as the only other unit with FP>1 is the Me-262.

There was major trouble at Tripoli when a Brit vet Partisan showed up outside the city. 75 mm artillery could not kill it yet it could kill a fortified German non-vet armored car behind A-T defences. Also, I'm not sure where the Brits would find manpower for Partisans in North Africa. Certainly not in Egypt. The Egyptians didn't give a damn for their British overlords and, AFAIK, the desert tribes were wise enough to stay aloof from the fools fighting over nearly useless desert.


3. Germany and Japan have some banks at the start of the scen but cannot build additional ones. Do you want banks to be buildable by Fascist (Fundamentalist) governments or is this a means of modelling their shaky economies?


4. Would it be better if the German Half-Track unit was renamed Panzergrenadiers and the Allied and Japanese equivalent was called Half-Track, Armored Inf or Mechanized Inf. The present Armored Car icon really doesn't look anything like an armored car.


LEMMINGS
The attached screen shot is from March '41. I have no idea what the attraction is in Monrovia but all US naval units (~30) are making a pilgrimage to it and then returning to the Panama Canal. The northern stream of ships have GOTO orders for Monrovia; the southern ones are doing a GOTO to the Panama Canal. There is not a single American naval unit in the Pacific. The AI certainly does work in wondrous ways.

[curtsibling]

That is a disturbing picture!

The AI is indeed completely barmy at times...

For the Germans, those Waffen SS regiments can be very handy to smash stubborn defences...!

I will give serious consideration to your Allied civ suggestions...
It might be better to give an impression of those shaky nations who are up for grabs!

I will sort out those banks in the Axis cities, as they have their own ways to make cash!
(POW camps)

I will do something about those killer partisans...

Many thanks for the feedback, again, dude!
This is killer stuff and will help me get the final version together!

[Jimmywax]

Originally posted by curtsibling
This is killer stuff and will help me get the final version together!

And just when might that be?

[AGRICOLA]

I've implemented the changes in city ownership.

I will sort out those banks in the Axis cities, as they have their own ways to make cash!
(POW camps)

The POW camps have relatively little effect on Fascist income because they only increase the trade of river squares and trade-generating resource squares. The number of trade arrows from ordinary grasslands, plains, forests, hills and mountain squares is not increased. Roads and RR's have an effect on the amount of trade from these squares only for Democracies.

I was actually hoping that inability to build stock exchanges would be enough of a financial handicap for the Axis.

For the Germans, those Waffen SS regiments can be very handy to smash stubborn defences...!

Yes indeed, I've used them a bit in Britain and elsewhere to smash the last, weakest city defenders.

The "killer" partisans have pretty well kept the Japanese at bay in China.

I'm trying out Mv=172. in RULES for Wespes becuse they are SP arty. This gives them a road range of 8 squares, rather than the 6 squares of towed arty, so that they can move 2 road squares and still attack at full strength. Can't yet comment on whether this unbalances anything.

The performance numbers for the German Pocket Battleships are somewhat better than those of the BB's of other civs. Are they perhaps meant to reflect the performance of Bismarck class ships rather than the much smaller and less powerful so-called pocket battleships?

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA

LEMMINGS
The attached screen shot is from March '41. I have no idea what the attraction is in Monrovia but all US naval units (~30) are making a pilgrimage to it and then returning to the Panama Canal. The northern stream of ships have GOTO orders for Monrovia; the southern ones are doing a GOTO to the Panama Canal. There is not a single American naval unit in the Pacific. The AI certainly does work in wondrous ways.

Experimentation shows this to be a function of the Naval Superiority Role which makes the ships goto a friendly port - while the Attack role causes ships to go to a port of another tribe.

This is the case in MGE and presumably for TOT.

[AGRICOLA]

Thank you, that is very interesting. Yes, all naval units do have the Naval Superiority role.

On the basis of experience with similar scenarios, I have expected US ships to show up in Europe and to try to enter both the Mediterranean and the Baltic. In anticipation of this, I have been taking whatever steps I can to blockade the entrances to both the Baltic and the Mediterranean.

I imagine that Curt will be making some changes and that such blockades may indeed be needed.

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by Jimmywax
And just when might that be?

When the flu and real-life backs off and gives me a chance to spend a whole day on my CIV2 work!



Don't worry, this scenario will get done if it kills me!

[curtsibling]

I am in the process of making the changes just now...

The naval units will have their roles changed to '0' attack...to see what happens!
Banks will be buildable by all, and war bonds buildable by the Allies only.

I have my degree graduation on Wednesday, so I hope to
upload the new version on Thursday!

Cheers for your patience, fellers!

[fairline]

Originally posted by curtsibling
I have my degree graduation on Wednesday, so I hope to

nice one Curt

I trust we'll be seeing the pics of you in full batman cape and mortarboard

[fairline]

Interesting pic from Agricola showing the bizarre AI naval manoeuvres. Has anyone studied civ AI movement in detail? It appears that they're taking a direct diagonal line from NY to the first bit of land in Africa (hey that much is obvious!); I wonder what criteria the AI uses in it's naval movement?

[AGRICOLA]

Originally posted by the inimitable, indomitable, irrepressible and soon-to-graduate Summa *** Laude, Curtsibling

The naval units will have their roles changed to '0' attack...to see what happens!
Banks will be buildable by all, and war bonds buildable by the Allies only.

Bummer, Big Brother Apolyton Censor is still alive and censoring everything with a heavy hand and complete ignorance of Latin.

Suggested changes implemented!

[Exile]

Naval movement ?

Gareth, I've already suggested (in a thread that's now probably lost, so I restate it here) that the naval AI appears to pick a direction, usually horizontal, east-west, and sends its ships along that pathway . . . . until it strikes land or it encounters other naval units. I think the diagonal direction of Aggy's screenie is coincidental, the result of the location of Monrovia.