Empire of the Rising Sun

[Patine]

@AGRICOLA: I plan to actually use all of the available slots, except the barbarian leader, though I kind of wish I had a few more still.

@Broken_Erika: There was some issues copying and pasting. Nothing that can't be easily fixed, though.

@Leonidas: I don't know of any bigger Yamatos myself (or any others period).

[typhoon]

@ Patine

Here is a modified units.png, which I have updated a bit with Curt's excellent Pacific War aircraft. There are several changes:

- The Australian Mathilda has been replaced with British 1941 khaki uniformed soldier. You only need one Mathilda for both the Brits and the Aussies.

- The J2M Raiden has been replaced with a Ki-84 Hayate by Curt

- The B-24 Liberator has been replaed by a P-51 Mustang, also by Curt. IMHO the US only needs two bombers, the early war B-25 for Doolitle raids and the B-29 for fire bombing.

- The Japanese and US Navy planes have been completed replaced by stunning examples from Curt.

- The Japanese infantry have been updated for the TOT palette.

- All units have been aligned to face the proper direction.

- New flags courtesy of Sarsstock

- Some minor tweaks here and there

Right now I'm waiting for Curt's permission to use these units, so its off-limits currently. We'll just have to wait for his approval.

[Patine]

Thanks a bundle, typhoon! Obviously, you got my apology. I'm happy we're back on equitable terms. The Mathilda/Brit Infantry switch will lead to some unit swapping in the .scn itself, though, but that's no big problem. I sure hope Curt's alright with using his units. Again, thank!

[Case]

Originally posted by typhoon
- The Australian Mathilda has been replaced with British 1941 khaki uniformed soldier. You only need one Mathilda for both the Brits and the Aussies.

Especially as the British didn't deploy any Matildas to the Pacific theatre

On a similar theme, you could free up a unit slot by having Australia and Britain share a Spitfire unit.

- The B-24 Liberator has been replaed by a P-51 Mustang, also by Curt. IMHO the US only needs two bombers, the early war B-25 for Doolitle raids and the B-29 for fire bombing.

Er, prior to 1944 the B-24 was the main US bomber in the Pacific It's very long range was vital and it played a huge role (as, of course, did the B-25).

BTW, what unit is representing the Chinese Communists?

[Broken_Erika]

there are 2 identicle japanese infantry, replace one with a communist unit

[Patine]

Actually, there already is a Communist unit. It's the one last one on the file with a solid red shield.

@Erika: Which two are identical?

[AGRICOLA]

It looks like you have maxed out the number of units for TOT, but I'm not sure that you have used the slots to best advantage.

1. There are 2 freighters, both generic. That seems redundant unless one is meant to be a LST? If so, Nemo has a pretty good LST in his Second Front.
2. Why do the Japanese need 8 aircraft types in addition to the Okha? It seems to me that 2 types of fighters, medium bombers and single engine attack bombers would suffice for one model at the start of the war and one upgrade. I would not get into the unholy mess of duplication of types that the Japanese army and navy engaged in.
3. The Japanese have 6 types of infantry. Assuming that one is miscellaneous or for their allies, I would think that they would need only 3 more . . . . regular infantry, marines and a Kamikaze last-ditch home guard.
4. There are two Japanese light cruisers, Tenryu (old) and Sakawa (modern but not particularly good compared to American CL’s) but none of their powerful heavy cruisers with their unusual turret arrangements.

In view of the above, it seems to me that there are some unneeded units, and would suggest replacing two existing units with the following.

A. Mines
I was checking out Clay Blair's "Silent Victory" (History of US submarine ops in WWII), trying to set up a table of monthly Japanese shipping losses as means of estimating the increase in the efficiency of US sub operations as the war progressed, when I noticed that the Japanese have no mine unit in your proposed list of units, despite the fact that they used them extensively. The Sea of Japan was blocked off by mines to any Allied surface units until the end of the war. Only a few submarines managed to enter through La Perouse Strait between Hokkaido and Sakhalin. I think that there should be Japanese minefields blocking all but the northern entrances to the Sea of Japan and, even there, a few mines would not be historically incorrect. The type of unit that I’m thinking of is used in Red Front.

Floating Mines, nil, 2, 0.,0,12a,30d, 9h,9f, 1,0, 2, no, 000000000000000 (unit is visible, immobile and cannot be built)

I have no idea if mines were used to blockade Tokyo Bay or protect coastline cities.


B. Kamikaze naval units
The Japanese were manufacturing things such as the Kaiten manned torpedo, motor boats loaded with explosives (USS Cole type) and mines to repel an invasion. There is no Kamikaze naval unit to represent these defensive units. I would suggest adding an inexpensive Mv=1 naval unit with low to moderate attack strength. There should be a house rule that it must operate as a trireme and stay in coastal waters.

The units that I'm suggesting are defensive and of much greater potential use to a player than 6 types of infantry units or two light cruisers.


BTW, if anyone wants to know anything and everything about the IJN in WW2, check out the following website.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm

The site does not have much in the way of photos but more than makes up for it with paintings of many ships, their war histories, naval aircraft, personnel, meaning of ship names, etc., etc., etc.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Patine
@Leonidas: I don't know of any bigger Yamatos myself (or any others period).

The Yamato was the largest battleship afloat.

Yet, in the units file all the other battleships are larger than it is.

Maybe some kind artist can give us a unit that represents the truly titanic nature of this mighty ship

[Patine]

@AGRICOLA: I do think mines and defense ship could add a new strategic layer to the game; it would make a sudden US rush for the Home Islands less likely (even if the AI attempted such a feat), and would better reflect the naval setup of the day. My six Japanese infntry units represent the following roles, in order of appearance:
Home Island defense (strong defense; can't move or be built or disbanded)
Basic Defense (mainland Asia mostly)
Offensive Infantry (more attack; again, mainland Asia mostly)
Marines
Manchukuo Troops
Bansai Troops
If you do think any of these are truly unnessecary, just let me know. I'm more inclined to actually drop a Japanese plane or two for the defensive naval units, however; I admit, there is redundancy. I would also like some heavier cruisers, but they're hard to find.

@Leonidas: I will try to get a big Yamato if I can.

[curtsibling]

The ship issue is covered by making the other vessels slightly smaller.

In the new Dictator I am developing, I made sure the super-battleship had
far more deck structure features than the even the rather robust looking BB.

By lengthening the overall hull (ToT give more room for this) and pasting on
more and more of fairline's ship items, I ended up with a decent sized SBB.

[Broken_Erika]

Originally posted by curtsibling
The ship issue is covered by making the other vessels slightly smaller.

In the new Dictator I am developing, I made sure the super-battleship had
far more deck structure features than the even the rather robust looking BB.

By lengthening the overall hull (ToT give more room for this) and pasting on
more and more of fairline's ship items, I ended up with a decent sized SBB.

i'll post my only SBB attempt in the ww2 thread

[Jimmywax]

@ Patine: I haven't finished your Japanese transport yet and I see you found an LST. I did finish a J2M Raiden for you though and a recolor of the stuart just so it is a closer match to the Pershing and Sherman. I also think you should use one of the two P-40's I included rather than my original. I think these two new ones look better. I won't be able to work on anything else until this week end though. My job takes me away every week and I am only home on the weekends.

You know what that means don't you?

I need I new job, but they are going to make me a foreman in the next couple of weeks and I can't say no to the money.

P.S. the only hold on the transport is that all pictures I find suck and don't worry about the Raiden, I only made it because I thought the one you were using didn't fit in.

[AGRICOLA]

Originally posted by Patine
My six Japanese infntry units represent the following roles, in order of appearance:
Home Island defense (strong defense; can't move or be built or disbanded)
Basic Defense (mainland Asia mostly)
Offensive Infantry (more attack; again, mainland Asia mostly)
Marines
Manchukuo Troops
Bansai Troops
If you do think any of these are truly unnessecary, just let me know.

I certainly can't argue with your choices from a historical perspective. My quibbling is from a player's point of view where I question whether a player would ever want to build more than one of the 5 buildable types, the one with the best A/D numbers. Without knowing what the actual A/D numbers will be, I really cannot comment further.


BTW, that is not a LST in Typhoon's units but most likely a much smaller LCVP. LST's (Large Slow Targets ) were large ocean-going vessels with the following specs:

Displacement: 1490 tons (lite); 4,080 tons (full load of 2,100 tons)
Length: 327'
Beam: 50'
Draft: 8' fwd; 14'4" aft (full load)
Speed: 10.8 knots (max); 9 knots (econ)
Armament: 1 3"/50 DP; 1 40mm; 6 20mm
Complement: 7 officers, 204 enlisted
Diesel engines, twin screws
LST's carry smaller landing craft topside, a tunnel-like hold full of tanks, vehicles, guns or cargo.
1,152 ordered from Nov 41 to the end of the War

[typhoon]

My recommendations for the names of the Japanese infantry-


Home Island defense- Giyugun Hohei (Volunteer Army troops)

Tasked with the defence of the Home Islands. Similar to the British Home Guard and the German Volksstrum, really a hastily erected last line of defence. Fanaticism and willingness to fight to the death however would give them a high defensive value.


Offensive Infantry- Hohei Butai (Infantry Force)

Garden variety Japanese Infantry.


Marines- Senpaku Hohei (Naval Infantry or the SNLF)

The Yokosuka Special Naval Landing Force, many good websites available on them.


Banzai troops- Imperial Guard

Elite troops. It just strikes me odd to have an entire unit devoted soley to running at the enemy screaming their heads off. This trait was not exclusive to one type of Japanese soldier; it was a common tatic throughout the IJA, albeit only later in the war.


Basic Defense- Kempeitai

Military/Secret Police. They were responsible for security in occupied areas.


Manchukuo troops- Kantogun Hohei (Kwantung Army)

The dear chaps who rigged the Marco Polo Bridge incident and later started the Nomohan war with the Soviets.


Other suggestions:

Scrap one or two of the defensive infantry, replace with:

- Teishi Dan (Paratroopers)

Based on the German Fallschirmjaeger model, they were used mostly for the seizing and occupation of airfields (Dutch East Indies) or, less successfully, were randomly dropped onto Pacific islands to act as garrisons. Without hope of resupply many died from starvation, diesease, or were eaten by cannibals.

- Suicidal troops (cruise missile unit)

In the same vein as the banzai troops that were mentioned, basically these are units which represent the tatic of Japanese soldiers blowing themselves up with grenades when surrounded by allied troops, or attacking tanks with satchel explosives. Most of the time they waited in ditches until the tanks were over them before detonating their charges.

It could also be used to represent the willingness of Japanese civilians to sacrifice themselves should the US mount a successful invasion of the Home Islands. IIRC correctly they were preparing to strap explosives to women and children in order to kill Americans.

- Native troops

Yes, the Japs did raise willing contingents from the locals in the occupied countries. We have Korean and Taiwanese serving in the regular army. Famous examples include Park Chung-Hee (a former President of South Korea) and Lee Teng Hui, an ex-president of Taiwan.

(As a matter of fact, Lee Teng Hui's brother, who also fought for the Japanese, has his ashes buried in the controversial Yakasuni shrine.)

There was the Indian National Army, headed by Chandra Bose, which was committed to overthrowing the British in India with Japanese support. Raised several units from Indian soldiers captured in Malaya and local Indians.

We also have cases of Indonesian and Thai volunteers, Chinese collaborators, and, most strange of the lot, several German members of the French Foreign Legion in Indochina.

- Kihei (Cavalry)

Quite an anachronism, but remember that the IJA was less mechanised than its western counterparts. Also could include Mongolian Bargur scouts working for the Japs.

[Broken_Erika]

well, horses can go where vehicles can't, and they require much less matinence,