Atomic Eagle II: The Price of Freedom Development

[Sarsstock]

Here is my attempt at the F-86 Sabre your in need of Harry. Its based allot on Gareth's P-90 with a recoloured cockpit, lowered tail fins and a embedded seamline on the fuselage.

The only element I'm not sure of is the shield I attatched to the fighter, I believe the USAF may have been formed by then with the new "post USAAF" logo, but I'm not sure.

[Harry Tuttle]

Not too shabby Chris. I have one request though, make it a bit bigger so that we can show it off with the ToT pallete. The Sabre was close in size to the F9, about 40 feet in length, 40 feet long and I want to showcase one of the best dog fighters constructed.

EDIT: and if I remember correctly, the USAF used the standard star over bars at the time.

[jim panse]

I don´t want to be the pain in the ass .... but: considering the fact that the F-86 (as was the MiG-15) was based upon the plans the Americans (respective Soviets) were able to retrieve out of German planning bureaus I doubt the USAF would be operating such a plane given your timeline.

Here is the Wikipedia entry for the "mother plane"

And now I shut up, sorry.

EDIT: Added the Wikipedia link.

[Harry Tuttle]

http://www.warbirdalley.com/f86.htm

"History: In 1944, North American Aviation submitted a design for a swept-wing day fighter which could also be used as a dive-bomber or escort fighter. Two prototype XP-86s were contracted in late 1944, but were not built until after WWII due to the incorporation of several design modifications which were prompted by German research data. The first XP-86 prototype flew on 1 October 1947, powered by a 3,750-pound thrust G.E. J35 engine. After it was re-engined with a more powerful G.E. J47 turbojet the following spring, it was redesignated the YP-86A, and exceeded the speed of sound in a shallow dive. The first production model was initially designated the P-86A, but became the F-86A in June 1948. By the time the new fighter entered US Air Force service in 1949, it had gained the name "Sabre." "

Some More: http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p86_1.html



Aha! So you see, since the plane was already in development, it could have been possible to create the F-86 or at least a lesser version that would have been improved from the FJ Fury - but still lacking some of the minute details from the German design.

[jim panse]

Yes, that´s true. I just told Chris over @ MSN he might post a German edition of that unit too - the Focke-Wulf Ta 183 was the designated successor of the Me-262 ...

My guess would be that the Germans in your timeline would come up with something like the MiG-15 which was heavily influenced by the Germen designs the Soviets retrieved when they overrun Berlin in '45.

[Harry Tuttle]

I concur. The Ta 183 is a necessary unit in the game. The Germans will most likely start off with the ability to produce the unit at the start of the scenario while the Sabre will have to be researched by the Americans.

Ooooh, another interesting article. http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...ircraft_id=120

The Sabre derived one main component from the German design - the swept wing. Without it it could not reach high speeds. But, they seemed to have resolved the problem with the research data by 1945. So, if the scenario is to start after 1947 then I believe we are in the clear. Someone would have figured the swept wing out by then.

[jim panse]

I am not sure if the Germans should be able to build it at the beginning, Harry.

The MiG-15 - which was much more based upon German WW2 designs than the Sabre - performed its maiden flight in '47. Assuming Germany won WW2 it is much more likely that early models of a "Fw Ta-183"-like plane would be with the Luftwaffe. Since it was a designated successor of the Me-262 anyway, I suppose the German industry would produce a lot of these ones after initial combat (losses).

Maybe some event-triggered production start (like "too many Me-262 lost by now, so the Führer decided to commision full front service of the next generation of jet planes ...") would be much more likely?

[Jimmywax]

As I sneek out the back door...

[Harry Tuttle]

Thanks Jimmy

@Steph: Well I don't know how late the plane would have really come into production. According to some of the stuff I'm reading ( http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraf.../info/info.htm ) the plane was in prototype stage by at least spring of 1945 and production was supposed to have commenced in the summer. The plane was supposed to have first used the same engines that the Sparrow used.

The scenario starts after 1947, so there's a good possibility that the plane could be used early on, especially if they're trying to take on the U.S., the biggest adversary there was in the timeline. Though I could see the plane coming out in limited quantities in response to a loss of enough Sparrows or maybe as a result of resources being diverted to armor production.

So maybe the appearance of better aircraft should come in waves as a result of a trigger as you said... I want to keep the gameplay as responsive to the Human players assault as I can, so I don't think a tech trigger would work alone. Can you make triggers in ToT that are based on units lost?

[techumseh]

Damn. People are getting good at this.

[Sarsstock]

Well in any case Harry I'm on the job for both planes. I'll take a shot at enlarging the current design into both the "Fw Ta-183" and the "F-86". What I'll probally end up doing is make a vector path around the old fuselage so I can enlarge it, recolour it using the same colour scheme fairline had initially, then it should be a simple job of redrawing the wings, cockpit and all.

I'll try to have something ready to show tonight Harry .

[Harry Tuttle]

Thanks Chris

[fairline]

Originally posted by Sarsstock
.....Its based allot on Gareth's P-90......

My what? I don't remember drawing a 'P-90'......?

If you are looking for a good starting point for an F-86 to modify, then have a look at Jimmywax's excellent Sabre (with his permission of course!). The proportions are spot on.

[Sarsstock]

Hmm.... something strange has happened. I posted this new unit afew hours ago but it seems to have been deleted. Oh well .

Anyways Gareth I had mistaken Jimmy's unit for one you had created, my apologies once again. I have been using Jimmy's Sabre as a reference, hopefully I'm getting closer to what Harry's looking for.

Anyways, here she be. I tappered off the fuselage, shortened the wings, narrowed the cockput and tightened up the intake. Let me know what the verdict is.

[Harry Tuttle]

You posted it in the modern unit thread... Looks good Thanks Chris.