NEW Civ2 Tournament August 16 - September 14, 2004

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

I'm playing 2.42 as well. I mostly play MGE or ToT these days, so it was a shock to deal with a generous, naive AI.

[DaveV]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Well, that is unfortunate. It means each color will have to be "eliminated" thrice or wait until 1500a

Are we sure that killing off a civ three times is enough to exterminate it? I remember seeing more than three reincarnations in a game, but that was a long time ago.

[Scouse Gits]

I, too, believe that more than 3 incarnations are possible - but I do believe that they require a certain amount of Lebensraum - which looks less than likely on this map...

Stu

[Bloody Monk]

With the extreme level of thread archiving, the threads with this info have mostly been shifted off the forums. I started one such thread and Xenon, I think, posted the results of his tests that showed the triple kill/ double respawn effect. More recently, La Fayette has posted similar, but even more detailed results. That post can be found at...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2630172#post2630172

Hope that helps....

Monk

[Grigor]

This doesn't seem quite right to me. I have experienced the no-respawn outcome even on the initial kill of a color. Just recently I was playing GOTM 43 at a rival site, and the Sioux (the original purple civ) did not respawn (lucky for me!).

I think I recall somebody suggesting that the mechanism might be a percentage chance for respawning, which either remains constant or diminishes with repeated respawning. I think they even suggested what the percentage mght be. In any case, that seems more like the way the game engine likes to do things - and is very similar to Samson's hut outcome analysis.

[Bloody Monk]

Hello Grigor,

Your memory is pretty good; it was indeed Zenon who added the info I mentioned earlier and he mentions a percentage factor. This is from the Archives...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2372242#post2372242

In addition to the posts by Zenon and La Fayette, I have done many simple tests verifying the multiple respawn occurance. All of them would have been earlier than the dates mentioned by Zenon that seem to affect the liklihood of a respawn. In every case, the colors reappeared until each of the civs had turned up, then stopped occuring.

This topic has not been completely put to rest, I think; but, in general, I think that playing Deity with restarts on, that until 1500a there will be many restarts.

Monk

[DaveV]

Monk: I can't follow your link.

Invalid post specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the webmaster

Scouse Gits: as usual, Stu, your language is more precise than mine. I meant more than two reincarnations, three total. I remember one of the civs repeating when I had an extra respawn (e.g. Vikings, French, Vikings, Germans). I don't think I played on beyond that point to see whether they would respawn yet again.

[Bloody Monk]

DaveV,

So sorry; I should have checked the link before I retired last night. Apparently, one can not link to threads in the Civ2 Strat Archive. But it is easy to find...

Go to the drop down links below the threads and choose Civ2 Strat Archive. My thread is ~ 6th on the first page -- if you set the search to the beginning. Thread is something like Respawns end at 1500a under Deity .

Monk

[La Fayette]

I have just posted a new summary on the Strategy Forum.

(so that daveV will be sure to beat me in this game )

[offa]

Originally posted by Elephant
Quick OCC report: a 3-special site with ocean access is visible under the Swamp to the southwest, but I'm unsure about the type of the hidden and invisible specials due to lack of huts. Looks like at least four river tiles, but if you settle on the river you lose the Whale. The continent number is 1, which may indicate a single large continent - and kills black-clicking help.

How do you work this out? In particular how do you "see" specials?

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2372242#post2372242

link now works

[Elephant]

Originally posted by offa

How do you work this out? In particular how do you "see" specials?

Specials are only hidden by Grass. You are familiar with the "3 up, 1 over" pattern of arrangements of specials? If not, start a blank map in MapEditor and draw a large continent that is all Plains. You will see groups of threes and fours, separated by the 3+1 pattern. You will also see huts that fall within the patterns at regular intervals. There is no hut visible in our start, which eliminates one set of patterns (it would be on the southwest corner tile where the river exits), and the lack of a special in that little lake to the northeast eliminates another set. So the 3Rivers tile northwest of the start should have a special hiden under the grass, and another should be in the black to the southwest. By right-clicking the starting tile I find the continent number is 1, so we cannot use black clicking to check to see if there is land or water out there (Ocean is #1 too). And the shape of the rivers as they exit the visible area tells me they extend at least one tile into the black. All that is left is what "type" of special (Whale or Fish) is under the grass, for which I'm not given enough indicators (other visible specials or huts).

Reading terrain is another form of experience-based Civ2 knowledge. It helps to have tried to design some scenarios of your own, trying to get specials and huts to appear in particular locations by juggling the Resource Seeds. Only certain patterns will appear, and they move fixed distances around the map each time you increment the Seeds.

[offa]

Thanks Elephant.

The level of knowledge re Civ 2 here continues to astound me. I have just found and downloaded ScouseGits hut finder which appears to magically do all of this for me. I presume this is one of the "Banned" utilities but it is pretty amazing.

I don't know if I will find time to play this, which would give you guys an opportunity to laugh at my efforts, but I am very pleased that such a great Civ2 site exists, and would like to support it. If you guys migrated over to Civ3 and played half as well, you would be near unbeatable.

[Daddy-O]

Hey offa,
I hope you find time to play, because then there will be two of us to laugh at.

[Bloody Monk]

In my experience, no one here will laugh at your results. At whatever level your play, everyone will either stand in awe or remember when they were beginning and, in either case, applaud your effort. Do your best and have fun.

Monk