Hammer of the North v2

[techumseh]

I think it's intentional, to slow down unit production probably.

[AGRICOLA]

That would seem to be an unusual way of slowing down production. It would make more sense to simply increase the shield cost of units/improvements. Right now the cost in the civilopedia is not the same as the actual cost. That is very confusing to simple-minded players like yours truly.

[techumseh]

Hmmm. Maybe I'll give it a try then.

[AGRICOLA]

HELP !!!

While testing some units to make sure that I know how they operate I encountered problems with the three role 6 (Diplomacy) ones: Royal Emissary, Assassin and Bishop.

None of them seem to be able to do anything other than bribe enemy units. None seem to be able to establish embassies, sabotage, investigate cities etc..

I have done the following:
1. Downloaded the scen from SL and extracted all files to DESKTOP/GAME DOWNLOADS/ HAMMER OF THE NORTH v2.9.
2. Started the scen as Norsemen/Deity.
3. Cheated Bishops (Spies) next to a city of each of the other civs.
4. Tried entering the cities.
5. Nothing happened.........no popup of spy options.
6. However, all Bishops could bribe enemy units.
7. Repeated 2 - 6 after giving the Norse all techs, just in case hardjoy had done something innovative with EVENTS.
8. Checked that the Bishop occupies the Spy slot (unit 47).
9. Checked that the list of Spy options is present in the GAME file.

Also:
1. I assume that the SL download is the latest version, or is there a later one?
2. Neither the Royal Emissary nor the Assassin occupies the Diplomat slot. That explains their limited ability.

Could someone please check this out on their version of the scen. It's been driving me absolutely nuts for the last 3 hours.

[techumseh]

@AGRICOLA: All of my diplomatic units operate with full functions, including the Bishop with all spy functions. I'm playing v.2.9, using MGE.

BTW, there is no special ability conferred by the Diplomat slot, only the Spy slot.

[AGRICOLA]

Thank you very much, techumseh. Your positive reply encouraged me to further investigate the problem.

Actually, I have seen something similar in the past with Red Front 1.5 where, in one folder, units could select what they wanted to pillage while, in another folder, there was no option popup.

I managed to figure out that the problem is solely associated with the folder that contains the scen, specifically the folder name, HAMMER OF THE NORTH v2.9.
Evidently, folder names cannot contain a period.
There may be other characters that are also taboo, but I haven't bothered to try to identify them.

Once the period was removed from the folder name, things operated normally.

Thanks again.

[AGRICOLA]

There is at least one problem with using Tech 0 (AFl) as the expiry tech for Papal Reform (Michelangelo's).

In RULES, Mike's is shown to expire with the discovery of Tech 0 (Heresy) but the PEDIA has Expiry: None.
Very misleading to players.
BTW, this is not specific to this scen because the same thing happens in vanilla MGE.

However, as an added feature, in the scen but not in vanilla MGE, there is no effect on happiness when Mike's is built.

Seeing as I seem to be problem prone with Hammer, maybe someone could please check whether this is another of my one-off screwups.

[AGRICOLA]

However, as an added feature, in the scen but not in vanilla MGE, there is no effect on happiness when Mike's is built.

The above is correct but not the whole story.

The crux of the problem is that, in vanilla MGE, Monotheism allows the building of both Cathedrals and the Michelangelo wonder. In Hammer, Theology allows Michelangelo to be built but not Cathedrals. However, Theology is needed to research Architecture, the tech needed to build Cathedrals. Eventually, when Architecture is dicovered, a previously built Michelangelo does take effect.

Obviously, either Architecture should be made a precursor to Theology or Theology should allow the building of both Cathedrals and the Michelangelo wonder.

In other words, one cannot put the cart before the horse: you should be able to build Cathedrals before building Michelangelo.

I finally said to h*** with it and cheated Architecture to the Norse. The neater solution of making Theology the tech needed to build Cathedrals does not seem to work in mid-game.

EDIT: Grammar

[Boco]

Agricola, In ToT, I'm seeing something related to your AFl problem. In EA, AFl was a no, no tech that I was using as a preq for other techs. In the help screen, 'none' was listed as the preq for Alp, which lists AFl as its sole preq. After seeing your post, I gave AFl another tech (CA) as preq, which had no, no as its preqs. Now it works fine. Thanks

[AGRICOLA]

I'm very glad something good came from sorting out the $#@!&?, frustrating, see-for-the-first-time problems in Hammer.

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
In other words, one cannot put the cart before the horse: you should be able to build Cathedrals before building Michelangelo.

I'll bet that this also holds for Pyramids (Granary), Women's Sufferage (Police Station), SETI (Research Lab) and, possibly, Great Wall (City Walls).

[biru biru]

I liked your last viking scenario a lot. This one is even better. Cheers man.

So far I am having the same problem with the diplomats not functioning that Agricola talked about, but no '.' in the folder name. I had a similar problem for a while with my ants scenario though. Anyway, if I figure itout, or if anyone has further to add on this, I'll check back.

[AGRICOLA]

This is one hell of a scenario: original, fun to play and educational. As a consequence, I've spent more than a few interesting hours on the net, reading about the incredible period of Viking expansion. Thanks.

Generally, the scen has been virtually trouble free but, for whaterver they are worth, here are some minor trouble spots, some specific suggestions, and a few comments on gameplay.

1. The names in the wonder expiry list in rules are a bit messed up but everything seems to work fine.
2. Chester should be a coastal city.
3. Should the Great Wall wonder expire during the scen? Artillery to negate walls was not invented till ~1300, after the end of the scen.
4. The sequence of spawning locations for norse kings might be revised so that London is the first choice, Kaupang the second and Nidaros the last one. Despite holding Kaupang, a much more central location, all my kings were spawned in the frozen, miserable, far northern metropolis of Nidaros.
I never had any intention of capturing London. It was the designated 'trading city' for caravans from continental Europe. Similarly, Compiegne was the destination for caravans from Britain, Ireland and Iceland. Enemy cities and ocean voyages make for very profitable trading.
5. Loke, who functions as a one-shot missile, seems grossly overvalued at 800 shields. After capturing Uppsala and getting Loke, to me it was a no-brainer to disband it immediately in order to IRB Michaelangelo's. Decreasing its cost to less than 50 shields would make it much less attractive candidate for disbanding.
6. The name 'tradesmen' (caravan) should be replaced by something like trader. Tradesmen connotes carpenters, plumbers, mechanics etc., at least in North America.
7. Could the city name Abo be changed so that it is spelled with a standard A rather than an accented A .
I encountered problems in the city screen because toggling up through city names skips Abo. Toggling down picks up the city. As I tend to toggle up, I went nearly nuts in trying to find the last unneeded granary in order to sell it.
8. The scen can be played in a variety of ways. I opted for maximum trade to enable bribery in order to capture enemy cities as intact as possible and to avoid having to build libraries, universities, marketplaces and other city improvements. A fleet of 100+ drakkars, cogs and hulks and chaining provided rapid transport of caravans to London and Compiegne. However, a problem arose whenever a caravan or freight had to move along roads or cross-country. The mega-map is so large that moving 1 or 2 squares per turn is boringly, and unrealistically, slow. I would suggest either doubling the movement rate or, at least, increasing the road multiplier from 2 to 3.
9. I tried some minor changes to the map to model the Arctic Ocean, Black Sea and the navigable part of the Danube River, all of which were sailed by the Vikings. For the Arctic Ocean, the north end of the Baltic was closed off and a line of ocean squares put in across the top of the map. The Black Sea was modelled by a line of ocean squares along the bottom of the map between the Danube and the Dnieper. The Danube was made navigable from the Black Sea to just north of Regensburg, approximately where the present-day Main-Danube Canal joins the Danube. The changes seemed to work well and made exploration and trade a bit easier and, possibly, more realistic.
10. From previous posts, I had the impression that discovering Baptism was the kiss of death for the Norse. Wrong. As long as some Norse cities are building ravens when Baptism is discovered, there is no particular problem.

Inscription on a rune stone near Reykjavik:
Blessed are heroes and giants for they are the true king makers.

Great scen!
I really enjoyed it.