Hannibal's War

[High_Flyer]

Thanks for the answers.

When the player starts this scenario he is left slightly in the dark.

My suggestion would be to include a small section in the readme with a few hints about gameplay, namely:

1) The Carthaginians should do research to obtain valuable techs - ie better ships to attack cities;

2) More agents will appear throughout the scenario;

3) That Roman armies have a random chance to attack any Carthaginian city, including North Africa. Thus the player must be vigilant and protect all his cities. This doesn't spoil any surprises, and in fact will cause the player even more tension if he knows that he must protect all his cities, leaving fewer units for invading Italy.

4) It might be worthwhile to have a separate random Roman Army attack North Africa AND Spain. This would involve two separate armies that would appear on a random turn.

This seems historical to me. In Spain I was building up quite a military force, and even contemplated marching on Italy via Spain. This would have been a completely separate army from the one Hannibal had in Italy and from the one I had sent to Sicily.

5) I note that there are lots of spaces left in the units file. If it doesn't involve a lot of extra work, it would be kinda cool to have Hannibal's brothers (such as Hasdrubal) appear via events (and named) to undertake their historical roles. I also think it might be worthwhile to have Maharbal (who was one of the greatest cavalry leaders of ancient times) as a separate cavalry unit for the Carthaginians.

6) Finally, what exactly does the player need in order to win the scenario? Mention is made of attacking Corsica, but those cities are not objective cities. Is this scenario objective points based? IE: Does the player need to control a certain number of cities by the scenario's end? Or does the player just need to survive?

From this don't think I found this scenario easy. I didn't. As I played I found myself having to re-start the scenario after being confronted by events or military units. For example, in the first few turns, the player should NOT send his fleet into the Mediterranean. If you do, you'll be sorrryyyyy

I think a few helpful hints and some overall guidelines will help the player when he first starts this scenario. If another random army is placed in Spain (either in Spain or in attacks along the coast), the player will have more than enough to keep his hands full.

Also, the sounds are very nice. They really add to the atmosphere of the scenario.

I hope you will continue to improve this scenario, as it is quite enjoyable to play.

[High_Flyer]

Speaking of Hannibal:

I am surprised that considering that Hannibal was one of the greatest military geniuses of all time (his battles are still studied in military academies); that he roamed Italy for 16 years and was never defeated in the field (until Zama); and that his diverse military force remained loyal to him despite severe hardships and continual campaigning, that there has NEVER been a movie made about him

Given today's special effects artistry, one can well imagine the spectacle of seeing tens of thousands of troops and elephants crossing the Alps, and engaging in many battles with Rome.

The two great protagonists: Rome and Carthage - what a blockbuster that would make.

Who would play Hannibal, I wonder?

[yaroslav]

I don't know for sure, but I bet curtslibling would want Jennifer Aston as some gentlewoman from either Cathargo or Rome..

[High_Flyer]

Originally posted by yaroslav
I don't know for sure, but I bet curtslibling would want Jennifer Aston as some gentlewoman from either Cathargo or Rome..

Hehe - Oh, of course we would need a love interest (for the gals), while we fellas would cheer at all the gory parts (Hmm, is that thumbs up or down???)

Any who,

Just as in the movie "Spartacus" you had:

Rome vs the Slaves

Crassus vs Spartacus

Olivier vs Kirk Douglas


In "Hannibal" you could have:

Rome vs Carthage

Scipio vs Hannibal

Russell Crowe vs Mel Gibson

Crowe was great in Gladiator and Gibson was excellent in Braveheart.

Then add some pretty gals to swoon over our heroes, a cast of thousands, and a handful of geeky computer special effects guys, and voila - you have a major popcorn muncher, a blockbuster hit, and an Academy Award winner. . .

Well, it was just a thought. . .

[Boco]

Who would play Hannibal, I wonder?

Rowan Atkinson? Btw, who was Hannibal's closest servant?

[fairline]

mmm....wasn't it Baldrickius who could be played by Tony Robinson with Tim McInnery as his unwanted companion Percius

[fairline]

Originally posted by High_Flyer
My suggestion would be to include a small section in the readme with a few hints about gameplay, namely:

1) The Carthaginians should do research to obtain valuable techs - ie better ships to attack cities;

2) More agents will appear throughout the scenario;

3) That Roman armies have a random chance to attack any Carthaginian city, including North Africa. Thus the player must be vigilant and protect all his cities. This doesn't spoil any surprises, and in fact will cause the player even more tension if he knows that he must protect all his cities, leaving fewer units for invading Italy.

I think you are right about more info of this nature being included in the readme. I'll look into it.

4) It might be worthwhile to have a separate random Roman Army attack North Africa AND Spain. This would involve two separate armies that would appear on a random turn.

This seems historical to me. In Spain I was building up quite a military force, and even contemplated marching on Italy via Spain. This would have been a completely separate army from the one Hannibal had in Italy and from the one I had sent to Sicily.

There are events for both invasions already, but I think we need to increase the likelihood of them occurring

5) I note that there are lots of spaces left in the units file. If it doesn't involve a lot of extra work, it would be kinda cool to have Hannibal's brothers (such as Hasdrubal) appear via events (and named) to undertake their historical roles. I also think it might be worthwhile to have Maharbal (who was one of the greatest cavalry leaders of ancient times) as a separate cavalry unit for the Carthaginians.

This is a very good idea that I'll discuss with Pericles when he returns

6) Finally, what exactly does the player need in order to win the scenario? Mention is made of attacking Corsica, but those cities are not objective cities. Is this scenario objective points based? IE: Does the player need to control a certain number of cities by the scenario's end? Or does the player just need to survive?

If you press F9 you'll get the civ score pop-up. As you will see from this, the scenario is objective-based; there are 16 objectives in total and capturing 9 gives a decisive victory. Maybe we should put this in the readme as well.

From this don't think I found this scenario easy. I didn't. As I played I found myself having to re-start the scenario after being confronted by events or military units. For example, in the first few turns, the player should NOT send his fleet into the Mediterranean. If you do, you'll be sorrryyyyy

I think a few helpful hints and some overall guidelines will help the player when he first starts this scenario. If another random army is placed in Spain (either in Spain or in attacks along the coast), the player will have more than enough to keep his hands full.

Also, the sounds are very nice. They really add to the atmosphere of the scenario.

I hope you will continue to improve this scenario, as it is quite enjoyable to play.

Thanks again - the sounds were the work of Palaiologos. There is a lot of useful stuff in your feedback that I will discuss with him for inclusion

[Palaiologos]

Read the posts with extreme interest.

High-Flyer your feedback is most interesting, thanks.

1.The agent unit is actually buildable. Democratic sympathies is the tech name.

2.Scipio DOES appear at the head of a large army in Spain. There are TWO invasion of Spain techs.One is normally researchable by the Romans to make sure they attempt something in the penisula and the other is randomly given.

3.The engineer idea is good. Actually i planned to give engineers to all civs but there was no way to prohibit them from building any cities. The Romans historically did use engineers in Spain as they constructed forts and stuff near Tarraco.


4.Hanni's bro Hasdrubal is represented by the "General" unit in Carthago nova-he was left in charge there by Hanni. I for one prefer that only the major adversaries make an appearance as specific units in the scenario. The other Carthaginian general unit that makes its appearance is Hasdrubal Gisgo.

5.Research is vital. Check the civilopaedia;You can focus Carthage's resources on a specific front(Sicily, Southern Italy, Iberia etc...) to recieve reinforcements, stage a coup and overthrow the Senate and various other stuff.

6.The civilopaedia includes everything: Units, Terrain, wonders, improvements and most importantly technologies. Just take the time and quick read it.Not only you will understand the scenario itself better but you will also have the chance to read about "techs" such as "Analysis of the Punic wars", "Polybius history" etc that have been included just for the hell of it.

7.The city in Corsica was an objective the last time i checked.

We have tried to base the victory conditions on the historical strategical interests of Carthage-i.e Sicily, Corsica and Sardenia despite the fact that Hannibal's army posed no serious threat to any of these.

8.Actually i personally don't like the sounds much-i just ripped them off from other people's scenarios. I had found many other cool sound bits(waves, fires burning etc) but were not in .wav format and therefore unusable by the civ2 engine.

9.High-flyer, the event space is already filled up so no Romans attacking Gades or any other distant city. The way it is currently their prime target is Utica, then Carthage then Hadrumentum. Also if Capua is taken make sure you have enough forces there to bear the full strengh of the Roman confederate army.
Originally there were events for Barbarian uprisings in Spain and i was even contemplating about Macedonian reinforcements but sadly lack of space severly limited our options.

[Palaiologos]

BTW do people who played the scenario tend to follow the traditional alps route or do they clash with Scipio(senior) at Marselies?

Truth is that Fairline proposed to have indestructable units exerting ZOC and blocking the "southern route", but i wanted the player to have the option of attacking Marseleies and eliminating any future threat for Spain.
Hannibal historically was thinking of destroying Scipio's legions and Scipio originally believed that Hanni's objective was to besiege Marselies.

[Boco]

Baldrickius has a cunning plan. Would this benefit from an Advice.txt giving tech research hints? If it's inappropriate or already in there just chalk it up to the Baldrickius hereditary IQ.

[Arthedain]

Shoudln't Thessalonika be taken out of this scen and replaced with the city Pella, which was Macedonias capital for some time?

[fairline]

Originally posted by Boco
Baldrickius has a cunning plan. Would this benefit from an Advice.txt giving tech research hints? If it's inappropriate or already in there just chalk it up to the Baldrickius hereditary IQ.

That's a plan so cunning you could put whiskers on it and call it a weasel.

There is already a full set of 'pedia' and 'describe' entries though, so I guess the player has the info to hand. It's definitely worth thinking about, though.

[fairline]

Originally posted by Arthedain
Shoudln't Thessalonika be taken out of this scen and replaced with the city Pella, which was Macedonias capital for some time?

I suspect Palaiologos's place of origin and university town has something to do with it's inclusion...

[High_Flyer]

Palaiologos:

Excellent scenario

Thanks for the replies.

Just a few points:

1) The readme indicates that Corsica and Sardinia are objective islands. However, the cities Aleria, Olbia and Caralis have not been given the "Objective" status. So their capture will not count towards the final score.

2) It would have been interesting to have had a few more named units, but it doesn't take away from the scenario itself. I think it would have added a bit more historical flavour.

3) I realize that Scipio is in Spain. However, when I tore up all the roads, and waited to be attacked, the Romans were less than enthusiastic about venturing south. As a result, I was able to build a sizeable army, and was then building a large fleet. After several turns, there was still no activity from Rome in Spain. This could be a random turn thing, but I thought I would point it out.

4) Is it possible to give the Roman Legions the engineer ability so they can build roads, but not build cities?

5) I also understand that the events.txt has reached its limits, but a .bat file could extend this, could it not?

The areas I have mentioned are merely ways to add to an already great scenario. I have enjoyed it and anything that could be added to it will only make it even better.

Again, very well put together scenario.

BTW, I took Hannibal's historic route up the river and across the Alps. And after many bloody battles, my forces currently stand poised outside of Cannae. No matter how many Roman Legions I destroy, they continue to raise more armies to send against me. Don't the Romans know when they are beaten? Hehe

However, the Romans attacked North Africa and took one of my cities there (something I wasn't expecting), so I may re-start the scenario, now knowing more about the scenario.

I like your idea about giving the player the option of attacking south or going over the Alps.

One of the strong points about this scenario (and there are many) is that the player has many different strategies/options that he can pursue. It is like a stylish chess game.

[fairline]

Originally posted by High_Flyer
4) Is it possible to give the Roman Legions the engineer ability so they can build roads, but not build cities?

I started a Romans in Britain scenario with selected legionaries having the engineer ability in order to build roads. The AI is dissuaded from using them to build cities by lowering the fertility value for the terrain, but the player has to use his common sense. The downside to this is they will build forts rather than fortify, which can be used to advantage I guess, so long as they can build quickly.

I think I'm right in saying in the Republican era the legions were not noted especially for their engineering prowess, as was the case in the Imperial era when all those incredibly straight roads and defensive walls were built by them. At the time of the Second Punic War Rome's army was still citizen-based rather than fully professional. Nevertheless, it might be a nice touch though.