Hannibal's War

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by Ceteram
@ fairline:





I am not from another planet you know.
Just really check my nick (ceteram censeo carthaginem delendam esse...) and you'll understand my first post. Unless you already did...

I knew the quote as

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

but a Google search have show me other possible ways of saying (more of less) the same:

Ceterum censeo delendam est Carthago
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse

but all of them say ceterum instead of ceteram. It's a shame that I've forget so quickly the Latin that was mandatory until eight years ago in the Spanish High schools (just after I end the Latin course it was declared non mandatory), because I'm not sure about what is correct: Ceterum or Ceteram.

[yaroslav]

http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookit.pl?latin=Ceterum

Ceterum is the adverbie form of Cetera, a noun. I think that Ceterum is probably the correct one, but I'm far from being sure.

[fairline]

"And therefore I believe that Carthage must be destroyed", a quote from Cato according to Google. Now I get it, Ceteram/um

[fairline]

Didn't Cato finish all his speeches with that line until Rome started the 3rd Punic War and raised Carthage?

[yaroslav]

Umm, well as far as I know in English it's something like (very free translation)

"For the rest of things, I believe that Carthage must be destryoed"

Yes, Cato eneded all his speeches with that line...

[Palaiologos]

Originally posted by fairline


Thanks Dave

The @GOLDENAGE choice occurs after the battle of Cannae and is a choice as to whether to slaughter just Roman prisoners or Romans and their Latin allies. As for the consequences of this choice - it makes no odds either way. The Cannae event is there to give the Romans the Fabian strategy.

Palaiologos was the event and tech tree maestro, so hopefully I haven't got this wrong I was the graphics and unit info monkey, with a bit of text and historical info help thrown in. I'm very much the junior partner in this one.

First of all i would like to thank every dude for their kind words.
Truth is that the gfx are stunning. Fairline even drew the science beaks and did a cool helenistic fort.

Actually the Fabian Strategy tech is given to the Romans after they suffer any major military reverse-i.e the death of a Consul, the fall of an important city etc.

Fabian was appointed dictator after the disaster at Trasimene and followed a conservative shadowing policy against Hannibal, avoiding any confrontation. The Roman soldiers just shut themelves up in walled cities and awaited for Hannibal to run out of momentum.

BTW i was wondering if anyone took the trouble and read the civilopaedia.

[Palaiologos]

And Cato sure sounds like an ass_hole to me.

[fairline]

Has anyone played this yet? Feedback of any kind would be appreciated, both negative and positive

[Boco]

Sorry guys, but I haven't had the chance yet. Soon as I get out of design mode, it's first on the list. I love the period and from my brief perusal it seems first class.

[High_Flyer]

Originally posted by fairline
Has anyone played this yet? Feedback of any kind would be appreciated, both negative and positive

Hi.

I have been playing the scenario.

Comments:

1) Very nicely put together scenario. I like the units, map, etc. It has a very polished look and feel about it.

2) While I have playing the scenario I have also been reading a book about Hannibal by Cottrell. This scenario, and the events, follow history quite well.

3) Is this scenario supposed to follow history exactly? OR is it loosely based on Hannibal's exploits?

The reason I mention this is because in the summer of 212 bc, the Romans staged a surprise attack on North Africa (after they discover the North African Tech).

Isn't this a bit early to have an invasion of NA? Scipio didn't attack until 202bc.

I don't mind this necessarily, but if you intend to keep this the same than I would suggest letting the player know in the readme that there could be some surprises in the scenario that deviates from history and the player should be prepared for attacks on cities etc. This would help keep the player on his toes.

Overall excellent scenario, and I like the fact I do not have to move lots of units. It will require careful planning and strategy to win. I highly recommend it and suggest anyone who is interested in the period to download it.

Suggestion:

1) It might also be interesting to do a scenario based on this, where the player controls the Romans and must defeat Hannibal's forces. This would be great since everything is already here to do this.

2) Do a scenario based on the famous Spartan stand at the Battle of Thermoplyae. With a specially designed map, new units, and events, I think it would be rather interesting.

Great job.

[Cifer Almasy]

hadnt been here for a long time... downloading now!
I love Ancient Scens!!!

[fairline]

Originally posted by High_Flyer
1) Very nicely put together scenario. I like the units, map, etc. It has a very polished look and feel about it.

Thanks! We both put a lot of effort into it, especially Pericles.

2) While I have playing the scenario I have also been reading a book about Hannibal by Cottrell. This scenario, and the events, follow history quite well.

3) Is this scenario supposed to follow history exactly? OR is it loosely based on Hannibal's exploits?

The reason I mention this is because in the summer of 212 bc, the Romans staged a surprise attack on North Africa (after they discover the North African Tech).

Isn't this a bit early to have an invasion of NA? Scipio didn't attack until 202bc.

I don't mind this necessarily, but if you intend to keep this the same than I would suggest letting the player know in the readme that there could be some surprises in the scenario that deviates from history and the player should be prepared for attacks on cities etc. This would help keep the player on his toes.

The intention was to create a scenario that is acurate in terms of the characters involved, political situation, initial disposition of troops and also set up the possibility of retracing Hannibal's campaigns in Italy. The reason for making the Roman invasions of N Africa and Spain random (with tech-generated troops) was exactly as you say, to keep the player on his toes. As you know the dates of the historical events, it would be too easy for the player to prepare for them and have reinforcements ready to counteract them; by randomising them this is made more difficult to achieve. I'll look at adding something to the readme to this effect.

Overall excellent scenario, and I like the fact I do not have to move lots of units. It will require careful planning and strategy to win. I highly recommend it and suggest anyone who is interested in the period to download it.

Suggestion:

1) It might also be interesting to do a scenario based on this, where the player controls the Romans and must defeat Hannibal's forces. This would be great since everything is already here to do this.

2) Do a scenario based on the famous Spartan stand at the Battle of Thermoplyae. With a specially designed map, new units, and events, I think it would be rather interesting.

Great job.

Thanks very much High_Fligher - the feedback is appreciated. As for your suggestions, I agree on both counts; obviously the first would be easiest to implement but I love The Greek-Persian wars era and Thermopylae would make a good scenario. The best scenarios from this era are Helles by John Ellis and the series of scenarios by Stefan Hartel, covering the Persian Wars up to the time of Alexander. They are highly recommended if you haven't already played them.

Any thoughts about anything you would change in Hannibal?

@Cifer, hope you enjoy it!

[fairline]

Originally posted by Cyrion
....BTW Fairline, I might need your help for some roman-based units for a future project! Once I'm over with the current one, that is...

Oops - I missed this when you posted it. What did you have in mind Cyrion? I have quite a few Roman gfx already, and could probably adapt them to suit your needs.

[High_Flyer]

Originally posted by fairline
Any thoughts about anything you would change in Hannibal?

I am a big ancient history fan, and have been looking for a good scenario about Hannibal. This is shaping up to be THAT scenario.

I have a few questions:

1) Is it worth it for the Carthaginians to do research? The player is given no information about any possible worthwhile techs.

2) Is Syracuase supposed to fall? I think perhaps Archimedes Defense may be too strong. I attacked that city with a catapault plus 8 military units, and lost them all against that single unit - Archimedes Defense. It is at least the most powerful unit in the game (so far). I re-loaded and attacked the Roman cities on Sicily instead.

3) It might be worthwhile to allow the Carthaginians to build the spy unit. They are given only one, and if they lose it - well . . .

Or at least provide another one via events for it to appear in North Africa for use in Sicily.

4) In Spain, I tore up all the roads and blunted the Roman attack. After several years there has been NO Roman threat to my cities in Spain from Rome - ie Not a single city has been attacked there by Rome.

I keep expecting an attack, but nothing happens. One possible solution might be to have a Roman army appear via events (with Scipio as leader) along with some engineers to build roads (in case the player does what I did), and have this army march south along the Spanish coast. The appearance of this Roman Army could be made to appear randomly, so the player will never know WHEN or WHERE this army will appear.

5) Overall, very nice scenario. This has obviously been playtested. So I am quite pleased with the play balance and the strategic choices the player must make.

For those playing this scenario: The Romans rule the waves. Try to find routes that will bypass the mighty Roman fleet. It may be difficult but it is possible.

This is one scenario where a player can try a number of different strategies. It is definitely a keeper and should be a classic scenario along with BeBro's Imperium Romanum.

[fairline]

Originally posted by High_Flyer
I am a big ancient history fan, and have been looking for a good scenario about Hannibal. This is shaping up to be THAT scenario.

Thanks

I have a few questions:

1) Is it worth it for the Carthaginians to do research? The player is given no information about any possible worthwhile techs.

Most definitely yes. I won't give the game away by explaining all the techs, as they are crucial for the gameplay. Pericles spent an age on the Civilopedia entries with my help, and they fully explain units and techs. As an example, you can research improved naval units and receive the ability to build juggernaut siege vessels - very handy against those coastal cities (including Syracuse if you wish).

2) Is Syracuase supposed to fall? I think perhaps Archimedes Defense may be too strong. I attacked that city with a catapault plus 8 military units, and lost them all against that single unit - Archimedes Defense. It is at least the most powerful unit in the game (so far). I re-loaded and attacked the Roman cities on Sicily instead.

As you know, Syracuse was an ally of Carthage and eventually fell to the Romans after a protracted siege. But it's also an objective city and you can be sneaky and subvert it with an agent...... or declare war and have a stack of juggernauts ready to assault it. As you know, Archimedes brilliant defences caused the Romans no end of bother, so I think it should be a tough nut to crack. It's also not essential to take Syracuse in order to win the game.

3) It might be worthwhile to allow the Carthaginians to build the spy unit. They are given only one, and if they lose it - well . . .

You're actually awarded 3 agents through events during the course of the game and I've always found this sufficient. If Carthage has too many, it becomes too easy to subvert Roman ally cities as you will find you have the money to do it.

4) In Spain, I tore up all the roads and blunted the Roman attack. After several years there has been NO Roman threat to my cities in Spain from Rome - ie Not a single city has been attacked there by Rome.

I keep expecting an attack, but nothing happens. One possible solution might be to have a Roman army appear via events (with Scipio as leader) along with some engineers to build roads (in case the player does what I did), and have this army march south along the Spanish coast. The appearance of this Roman Army could be made to appear randomly, so the player will never know WHEN or WHERE this army will appear.

This can sometimes happen given the random nature of the Roman invasions. I've played a game where the Romans repeatedly invaded N Africa and Spain and then another where only N Africa was invaded. We maybe need to look at increasing the odds of an invasion happening. I like the idea of giving them an engineer for road building (so long as he doesn't build a city - we might have to reduce the terrain fertility values). BTW, If the Romans should take Carthago Nova, they are awarded some juicy techs and you're in for a spot of bother...

I'll discuss these ideas with Palaiologos.

5) Overall, very nice scenario. This has obviously been playtested. So I am quite pleased with the play balance and the strategic choices the player must make.

For those playing this scenario: The Romans rule the waves. Try to find routes that will bypass the mighty Roman fleet. It may be difficult but it is possible.

This is one scenario where a player can try a number of different strategies. It is definitely a keeper and should be a classic scenario along with BeBro's Imperium Romanum.

Thanks again High-Fligher - good feedback and I'm glad you enjoyed it