Lizzy's rise to greatness

[mzprox]

we have made contact with the Zulu!

They have a woodsmanII (ultrafast) scout below Aurora. I allocated our espionage points to them.
From all the civs they are the worst possible neighbours. They are military oriented (civ and leader) and (imo) hopelessly backwards so they have little to lose if they attack us.
good diplomatic effort is required. They should go after someone else

[mzprox]

My testgames indicate that the barb would attack our warrior if we moved on the hill, so that's the best way to protect our pigs.

Th workers original goal is to build a mine there (and chop the forest in the process) (I wanted to do it 1N from current position, but after we lost Elissar and Apollo couldn't protect the workers I did not want to take a risk and expose the workers to possible wolves even if the chance was very low) thing is that building a mine in 7 worker turns gives the same result as chopping for 2 turns, then building a mine for 3 turns, chopping for 1 turn (chopping finished) building mine for 1 turn (mine finished). So we will put the first two worker turns into chopping just in case.

As for building warrior or chariot: if we go with chariot and we lose the battle we will have to finish the chopping for 20 production (instead of 30 as it would be after mathematics), but - if we win for which we have better chance then those hammers more usefull in the chariot than it would be in a warrior.
so all in all I also think that the best path to go is the one Cal's suggesting. we will choose that.

In Aurora i'd prefer to get the academy asap, but as a compromise I agree to delay it one turn and put one scientist working on the cow untill worker is finished (2 turns)

About religion: one of the benefit of pushing science is to get the benefit of reaching certain techs first. religious techs for example. I always try to choose the safest path (not going for wonders which are probably being built by someone else etc). Philosophy (taosim) would look a safe get for us, except a team could grab it with the oracle. Most of the teams are behind us in GNP/science, but RB team is going very strong. they might pull this trick. (so getting both CoL and philo before us). Then the only choice we would have is either theology or divine right (and especially the latter is conisdered an expensive dead end on the tech tree). Theology is not that bad, would allow us to build the Apostolic palace.

But whatever path we decide on to get us a religion 'ironworking' will delay us.

[Calanthian]

* Code of laws is indeed interesting. For religion and for courthouses.

* being turnplayer in 15 to 20 turns is ok. We have to check though how the holiday period in december works out..

* I vote we go chopping for one turn. Build a chariot for one turn. And combine this with option A. Then we have all options open.
If we win we switch to library, switch the choppers to building a road.
If we lose we chop for the chariot, and switch a 5F for a 3H and in that way we have exactly the 35 H we need.

* I would like to exchange one scientist in Aurora for 4F2H then we finish a worker 2 turns sooner.

[Dinner]

Btw about intelligence: call me paranoid, but i think the reason the RB team logs in about 10 times in each turn is to monitor the changes in gnp/production and by seeing who was online and when, they can tell exactly for any civ how much production (food/hammer) and gnp they have.


i don't really like the iea of early iron working since it's an expensive technology with a good chance to have no use at all (if no iron around)
I'd rather get archery and go on the monarchy/feudalism way to get longbwoman if needed.

I'd be ok with this. Though I would really like to go after code of laws way before monarchy or feudalism. I want a religion.

[Hercules]

Ok go for option a

[mzprox]

I also think we should try option A, but I will do some testing to see how often the barb would attack instead of going for the pig.

[Ben Kenobi]

I vote option A.

[mzprox]

pictures from current turn,

As you can see there are 3 brabarians threatening our cities. The capital's defense is good, chariot is in 2 turns.

On the west we need to decide how to defend. The only defender is diomedes with combat I promotion.

some of the options:

A we move dio on the hill and hope the the barbarian will attak (not moving on the pig for example) and that we win ofc (79%). for safety it is required that we start building an other warrior in the city which we finish only if needed

B we wait inside the city. the barb will probably move on pig, if it does we attack it in open field (~60% chance to win) . in this case too we start building a warrior.

C is that we do something with chopping, but it would be a pre mathematics chop, so only 20 prod instead of 30, but we could finish a chariot instead of warrior. one way to do it is to start building a chariot and start chopping. next turn barb moves on pig, we attack it and pray. if we lose we finish chariot next turn by chopping. pig would be lost, but that's always happens if we lose. If we win however we don't need to finish the chariot just yet (before the lib, but plan was anyway to build one after library). And workers can build a mine instead as it was original plan (no actual worker turn would be lost)

other ideas are welcome

[Ben Kenobi]

Ok, then my vote is for Masonry then go the religion route after Maths.

[mzprox]

Btw about intelligence: call me paranoid, but i think the reason the RB team logs in about 10 times in each turn is to monitor the changes in gnp/production and by seeing who was online and when, they can tell exactly for any civ how much production (food/hammer) and gnp they have.


i don't really like the iea of early iron working since it's an expensive technology with a good chance to have no use at all (if no iron around)
I'd rather get archery and go on the monarchy/feudalism way to get longbwoman if needed.

[Hercules]

I'm still wondering what the heck is going on with diplomacy. Have we done anything other than the initial hello letter to the Aztecs? I know several people have asked but I still haven't seen a straight answer though maybe I missed it or something.

BTW I'm for Iron working next and then we NEED a religion so what else would it take to get Code of Laws? Not only will that get us a religion but it will allow us to build courts which will greatly lower costs.

Pop into the Diplo thread and post agree with proposals then Robert will have enough approval to proceed with drafting response to ahemm the Inca.

We need Masonry for Hammans.

[Dinner]

I'm still wondering what the heck is going on with diplomacy. Have we done anything other than the initial hello letter to the Aztecs? I know several people have asked but I still haven't seen a straight answer though maybe I missed it or something.

BTW I'm for Iron working next and then we NEED a religion so what else would it take to get Code of Laws? Not only will that get us a religion but it will allow us to build courts which will greatly lower costs.

[mzprox]

I can't log in now, but will finish turn after played a few tests in the afternoon. I could had posted some pictures, but really you can look at previous turn's report, not much happened besides what i've said (the barb killed our defender and occupies the goldmine)

About intelligence reports: I do some time to time, mostly the interesting stuff about our position, who possible got wonders/religion etc), but I won't do extensive reports, that I thought would be the 'job' of our intelligence advisor. I spend a lot of time figuring out what to do in micromanagement.

I sent our civ's pw to Ozzy and Cal and let the captain decide who else should be allowed to have it. Since Ozzy is not around I will send the pw to Herc as well, and to DNK too, as I'm not sure he has it at all. (for names use H and D respectively after Lizzy when you log in and please be carefull not to change anything)

Btw I would like to be the turn player for about 15-20 turns, after that Cal might take it if He wants and we can change again later

[Ben Kenobi]

Chariot it fine. What else do we need for Hamaans after Math?

[Dinner]

Some sort of info would be nice.