Lizzy's rise to greatness

[Hercules]

No I agree with Mzprox, build cheap warrior policemen while we still have the opportunity. Later then can be upgraded.

[Dinner]

Honestly, I'd rather not waste the time and money on warriors and would rather spend the time and money building some axemen as they'd be far more useful.

[Dinner]

I'm still very worried about not getting a religion will hurt us and I don't think we'll get Taoism with this tech order but that ship has sailed. We could rearrange everything to get Philo in the shortest possible time but we'd probably still lose that race so sadly we should consider that ship as having sailed. If by some miracle Taoism or Islam are still out there when we have a great person then great but I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that we're not going to have our own religion.

[mzprox]

Some pictures. We founded the copper city. in 3 turns we will have the copper connected, I thought maybe we should build some warrior as cheap police force while we can (after we have copper we can't build warriors.-what do you think? they are not strong defenders but the cheapest +1 happyness under monarchy.

In the SW the barb did not attack our chariot, and I did not attack it either, it was on a hill, I did not want to risk and probably it will attack this time anyway.

[Hercules]

I agree to go with Mzprox proposals.

[Dinner]

MZ makes a good case. It is very possible we will lose the religion race but we could adapt to that. It would hurt us economically to not get a religion but we could still eventually get someone else's religion so we'd still get the additional happiness. If we don't get a religion though we will have to REX that much more to make up for the lost income and we can't really do until we get CoL and build courthouses.

I'm not much for second guessing so we should lock in MZ's proposal and not change it. Either we get the religion or we don't but we should maximize our minimum gain for the long term.

[Ben Kenobi]

I hear you, but I don't think that sailing gives us enough to make up for delaying Philo for 3 turns. We can always pick up Sailing later.

[mzprox]

We want religion, but first of all we want a well working economy. This game is very different from those we are normally playing. The maintenance cost is about +50-100% higher and that's a lot. I can imagine that some civs will go straigth bankrupt. (Inca for example: they have the same number of cities, but not financial and have twice as many soldiers due to the war.)

[Ben Kenobi]

Why do we keep pushing off religion? If MZ prox and Cala don't want a religion, you might as well come out now and say so. Let's stick to the path, going for Monarchy -> Alphabet -> Currency -> COL -> Philo.

[mzprox]

Sailing is 3 turns research, optimally would give us 5 commerce/turn (we can't really know that we will find an incan port city and that all their citis are connected.. or they won't get exterminated very oon by the natives)
Currency 12 turns of research, it would give us 1commerce/city (6), ability to use hammers to produce money, and we could start building marketplaces.

Also:to bulb philo we need alphabet, alphabet gives 20% discount on currency so we might do better if we get alphabet first.
I made some calculations:
alpha costs 540
currency:720
alpha would save us 122 research on currency
if we first go for alpha we would get currency 6-7 tuns later.
to make it comparable:currency would give us about 10 research/turn, but alphabet provides us 17-20 extra research/turn during that 6-7 turns while we are researching currency.
conclusion: I think we should go for (monachy)->Sailing->alphabet->currency->code of laws--bulb->philo

at current research rate it would take 32 turns to get there, but we will be slowed down by new cities/slaving a bit. (later we can grow our cities bigger ofc, so 32 turn is a good estimate) (also note that at current rate it would be 25 turns of research to get philo (not counting the prerequisites) the only way we could lose the race to get this tech first if an other civ would decide to bulb it without getting currency first.

[Dinner]

Hmm, how long would it take to get sailing and how much of a boost would it really give us?

[mzprox]

It was me who offered

Good they accepted.. this will bring in extra cash in a couple of turns

but only if we have sailing so we have to get it before currency

[Calanthian]

It was me who offered

Good they accepted.. this will bring in extra cash in a couple of turns

[mzprox]

I've adjusted production a bit so we will have a 6th worker ready next turn in the capital. This should be enough for now, we will start slaving soon anyway.
I see we have open border with he Inca, did they offer it or it was you, Cal?

[Dinner]

I like MZ's approach as long as we switch to currency after monarchy. Cal is right though that we need more workers and should be aiming for 1.5 workers per city. I suggest the following path Monarchy (should take 4 turns), currency, and then CoL (bulbing philo when one of the great scientist). That gets us a religion more money and the ability to get our support costs under control by building courthouses.