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The Dance of Civilizations [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Setup Thread]
Epic! And Robert, did you PM nr 3 as well about picking a leader? He still didn't pick one.
EDIT: Jeroen, nr 13 hasnt picked his civ yet, how's that pole coming along?
Last edited by Rempedaalops; August 8, 2009, 07:00.
I'm not going to PM #3 b/c if I look up who he is and he won't pick a leader, then I will in the end know who he is. If he won't pick a leader and there are multiple leaders available I'll just pick one for him.
Looks like only The Priest wants Normal speed.
personally I would not be opposed normal speed, just to see how it works and The Priest has a point indeed. But apparently there's no support for it, so let's go epic.
Ozzy, I suggest that you're going to launch this game on my server, we just use teamview, a prog that let's you take over my server for a couple of minutes. Then you start to pitboss server and load the game. That'll make sure that I won't fool around with the save and that everybody is sure that I didn't fool around with it. (to me the latter is most important, for the rest of you the first most probably )
I think we have to deal with some stuff.
I'm going to download this thread and read it through back in my vacation house (I'm not in my car at the side of the road abusing some unsecured network) and then propose the last changes somewhere tomorrow.
I have pm'ed #13, if he didn't move when I login again tomorrow I'll bump #14 and #15 to #13 and #14 and make #13 the new #15.
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
Ozzy, I'd be willing to give you sight on who's #3, but since you're also the map maker it may be better that you don't know. For the same reasons as why I let you start the pitbos server.
I can also imagine that you're going to be a judge in disputes that we can't solve using our 'own' system. In that case you'd also better not know who's #3.
Not to mention of course that maybe someone is pulling a trick by selecting his leader in the last second.
But I'm going to give you a way to see all civs / leaders without names.
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
Ozzy, I'd be willing to give you sight on who's #3, but since you're also the map maker it may be better that you don't know. For the same reasons as why I let you start the pitbos server.
I can also imagine that you're going to be a judge in disputes that we can't solve using our 'own' system. In that case you'd also better not know who's #3.
Not to mention of course that maybe someone is pulling a trick by selecting his leader in the last second.
But I'm going to give you a way to see all civs / leaders without names.
That makes sense.
I'll be on vacation starting August 19. So earlier than that would be preferable for me. But I guess since I'm subbing for Hera anyhow I am going to have to install Civ on my new laptop and see if I can get it to work on my trip anyhow. So... I guess any time will be fine for me, except August 19, I"ll be on the road all day.
Also, that link you gave me has the civ names, but not the leader names.
We should do the randomized start locations like we did with BTP.
Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012
When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah
Thanks guys for all the work. I agree with the confidentiality/randomisation stuff - best to avoid any possibility of the suggestion later than things were biased.
One question though - when we are about to start, are we going to know what all the nations and leaders are - I think it would be good to, to have a sense of who the competition are.
- let's start August 18th
- The Priest: you send a random list of all involved players to Ozzy by PM. (random as in: put the 15 names of players in a random order). I'll then PM Ozzy the nr's 1-15 in a random order. Ozzy will then combine your and my list and that'll determine the position of the players on the map.
- The Priest: I'll reveal the civs/leaders when everybody picked.
- Ozzy: I'll look at the list again, I didn't check it myself (don't want to see it yet) so that's why I couldn't check if it worked, hence the error)
Here's the last concept version of the rules.
Please only place important comments / suggestions / problems / additions.
Last concept version of the rules:
Dictionary of Termas: (addition only)
- Measured war
- A Civ Diplo Game has to balance two factors in war.
1. This is Civ - Warmongering, conquest and domination is a perfectly acceptable and honourable way to play. There is no intention that Diplo games need to be 'builder orientated' (though that is just as acceptable a strategy too).
2. This is Diplo - No civilisation should be crippled with the result that the game stops being fun for the player involved.
This means that there is a balance to be struck. War is costly for the aggressor, building up forces while other nations race ahead, so the victor should be able to make real gains from the war. But if they gain too much, the loser may be crippled.
Its impossible to make a hard and fast rule out of this, because that can just be exploited (e.g. a loser refusing to make a reasonable peace because 'the rule' will then kick in and save them). But as a guide, a 25% loss is an appropriate threshhold (loss being an overall measure, not just a city count - losing 3 tiny fringe cities may be much less of a loss than 1 major city). More than this may well be crippling the loser. But a loss/gain up to this probably is appropriate benefit for the victor. Again this can't be a rule - taking a small bite out of a neighbour every ten turns will cripple them, but having won a war against a neighour a millenium ago doesn't mean you can't fight with them again.
This concept of measured war is enforced in rule 7.[/b]
------------------------------
Game settings:
- Map made by OzzyKP
- Normal Barbarians
- Huts
- Random Events
- 21h turn timer (effectively 24h)
- The first 100 turns of the game will be played with an 8h timer
- Choose religions
Game rules:
01. Anonymous play (all players will receive an anonymous apolyton account, like "Pitboss Greece" which they will use for diplomacy (post and PM) and story telling (posts). The players behind the civs won't (immediately) be revealed that was. When players login to the game they must write down an anonymous name to keep their true identity hidden. Edit: no gmail accounts, only use PM). I'll put a large PM limit on the accounts)
02. Civilizations that are at war or want to declare war have observe the turn order which is set the turn before the war starts. Thus: no double moves during wartime or when declaring war. If one of the players will face troubles b/c of this rule and has no time to play his turn he contacts the host.
03. The host will give his cellphone number to all players so that everybody can send him a text message when problems arise and no internet connection is available.
04. Subs will always put '(sub)' behind their name when they login to the game. (ie. 'Emperor Augustus (sub)') tmp subbing for allies is allowed. Tmp subbing for civs that lost their player completely till a perm sub has been found is only allowed for civs that are not closely involved with the civ they wil sub for. (no neighbours, no enemies, no allies).
05. If a civ won't be played for 10 turns in a row or 20 out of 25 turns, a a perm sub will be looked for. Civs like this won't be annihilated.
06. It is not allowed to make public accusations against another player. If problems are suspected the gamehost will be contacted in private and the problem will be explained. (If the gamehost is the suspected trouble maker player heighest on the diplo-vote scorechart that's not involved will be contacted).
The host will then pause the game and explain in public there's a problem. He'll tell the other player in pivate about which he's been accused. Both involved parties will then send a list of players to the host (in private) that are acceptable to them to judge in this case. The host will then pick the best 3 players (according to the diplo-vote chart) and ask them to judge. (The host will never judge himself). If any of the involved parties thinks one of the judges is not a suitable judge for the conflict he'll pm the host who'll assign the next best player as a judge.
Both involved players will then send a brief explanation about their own position. The host will then send this to the 3 judges. The judges will all make a personal judgement and inform the host. The host will then disclose the result of the judgement. All players will accept the final verdict and the game moves on.
Example:
Diplo Score Chart:
1. France
2. China
3. India
4. Netherlands
5. America
6. Japan
7. Korea
8. Germany
9. Canada
* China has a problem with America
* China pm's the host and explains the problem
* the host contacts America, pauses the game and explains the situation briefly
* the hosts informs both parties about the 3 judges in pm. (France, India, Netherlands)
* china pm's the host that France is not suitale b/c it's an allie of America
* The 3 judges are: India, Netherlands, Japan
* The host posts who the judges are
* America and China write a brief explanation of their case to the host by pm
* the host will send these explanations to the judges by pm (the argument will never be made public)
* the judges will make their verdict and inform the host by pm
* the host will publish the verdicts. Majority wins. In this case: America
* China accepts this verdict, perhaps after needing some Cold Turkey Time.
* The game moves on, even when everyone knows that every verdict is imperfect. After all it's only a game.
Public Accusations will always be deleted by the host from the forums.
If not 3 acceptable judges can be found outside (not in the game involved) judges will be asked by the host.
07. When rules are being broken the game will be reloaded. The host can reload immediately when a breaking of a rule is obvious. If it's not obvious to everyone the game will be paused (again) and rule 6 will be effectuated.
08. Every civ can only post a limited ammount of stories in the story thread per month. This is to avoid an enourmous ammount of stories that nobody can read anymore. This mean that every civ can only post 2000 characters per month! This excludes diplomatic messages (letters) which therefore have to be placed as QUOTES. This also excludes images. An infinite number of images can be placed. (placing an image that only contain texts are obviously not allowed)
9a. Trading away a tech costs 1 voucher. All players get 15 vouchers. Vouchers cannot be traded away. (this means that civs can give away 15 techs or trade 15 techs for 15 techs)
9b. When 5 civs have advanced to the next age (ancient, classical, medieval, renecance, industrial, modern) all techs of the past age can be traded freely in a 1 tech for 1 tech trade without the need to spend vouchers.
9c. All tech trades must be reported in the Tech/Units trade thread. For '9a trades', only the 'giver(s)' must be reported. For '9b trades' the explicit deal must be reported. For '9b trades' the 5 civs that are supposed to have advanced into the next age must be listed along with the trade report.
10. City trades are allowed. Receiving a city back that you traded away in the past 50 turns is NOT allowed, unless requested in the org thread and nobody objects for ooc reasons within 48h.
11. When 51% of the players for ooc-reasons think that a war should end then it must end. This to avoid that civs will be cripled too much by a war. The terms of the end of war are in such a case: immediate peace for 50 turns. It is advised for both parties to agree on the best possible terms for peace before this happens.
Such an end of war must be organized in the org thread. (ie. players must announce their opinion regarding the end of a war in the org thread).
Reasons for such an end-of-war vote are only OOC! Not IG (like: my allie is losing this important city)
(check dictionary of terms for the meaning of 'measured war')
12. It is not allowed to reveal anybodies anonymous identity or to speak about these identities in private or public. During the game people may get more and more clues, but still keep their mouth shut.
Punishment for breaking this rule: losing 25% of the Fair Play Rating (for the entire game) per violation. (reason for punishment: no way to undo such a violation, unless someone finds a way to purge the info from our brains)
13. The player who achieves the In game victory player gains #1 position game-score position, no matter how much game-score he really has. (ie. Belgium 2290, Austria 2108, Canada 2085, Mexico 1984 VICTORY, New Zealand 1849; score: Mexico 5, Belgium 4, Austria 3, Canada 2, New Zealand 1)
14. No permanent vassalage (capitulation). The vassal must obey the terms made in a vassalage deal unless it's been freed (by a 3rd nation or by the master, or if the master doesn't live up to the terms). This rule is in place to find a way to get long lasting vassals then 10 turns only without being forced to remain a vassal by game mechanics.
15. When the game has started rules can only be changed if 66% of the players agree.
Not included:
- REMOVED: (it's always clear who's supplying the units. it's up to the enemy to take action. Everyone knew that Khmer, Rome and Sparta gave units to Spain, Russia and Japan) [3. 5+ Unit giftings per 30 turns must be reported in the Tech/Units trade thread or even better: as story posts in the story thread. (non combat units, like workers, settlers, great people, are excluded from this rule)]
- REMOVED: (unlikely to happen, dangerous to do) [4. No espionage tech-trade deals may be made. (ie. I put espionage 100% on you, you put espionage 100% on him, he puts espionage 100% on me, then we steal each other's techs cheaply)]
List of players: (alphabetical*)
- bamf226
- Black Knight
- BranksDilly
- Hendriks de Infiedielen Dooder
- Heraclitus
- Jeroen
- mzprox
- Pinchak
- Rasputin
- Rempedaalops
- Robert
- St Jon
- The Priest
- Toni
- WarningU2
*I hope
-------------------------
Diplo Score Mechanism (change only)
After every month all players are invited to rate the diplomatic, story telling/role playing and fair play achievements of all other players.[/b]
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
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