Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread V]

[Robert]

Same with Rome. (he was 1st in the turn order with Maya as well)
During the 3rd turn Rome even stopped playing immediately when he discovered the absence of Maya and reported this. (so Rome never played the 1770 turn)

[Robert]

Glohitia unfortunately is not able to sub
His schedule doesn't allow him to do so, unfortunately
Can any of the players of this game sub? Especially from the 'other' continent?

[Pitboss Rome]

Mayan Stabalisation

I take Khmer's point that perhaps I ought to have asked for a pause earlier, the first time it looked as if Maya wasn't playing. However, its tricky territory - remember previously when Maya missed a turn in a war, and I asked whether there was a problem, it was turned into an accusation that people were trying to kick him out. Also during the turn he did play recently he made a major attack against me and captured a city, so the general picture from where I was sitting wasn't that Maya was absent. It was only when I logged on and started to play 1770 and realised that he had now missed two turns consecutively that I thought it was worth risking another argument, being accused of trying to get Maya kicked out etc., by asking for a pause and raising the question.

My thoughts as to how to proceed:

1. Pinchak returns. If he wishes, we reload back to the beginning of 1766, so he can play the two moves he missed. Reloads are always a pain, but personally I would be happy with this (though obviously IG bad for me).

2. If there is no sign that Pinchak is going to return, we have to get a sub in to stabalize the situation.

We can't hand Maya over to the AI because (a) the AI will immeidately vassalage/capitulate. Vassalage to a strong power (portugal, khmer) would be OK - indeed it would have been the clever move by Maya when this war broke out and would have stopped it immediately, and in 10 turns he can renounce the vassalage. (Obviously not good for Rome IG but that isn't the point). However, the AI is more likely to capitulate to Rome or Sparta, which isn't a fair option. And (b) even if he doesn't capitulate once Maya is AI, it starts to be tempting for Rome and Sparta not to be fair and reasonable and to swallow up Maya (because its AI not a real person), which isn't a good option for the game.

However, I don't think we can put a sub in and just let them go with it. The sub would need a break to be able to assess the situation, do some diplomacy etc. Starting in the middle of a war isn't a good place to start. We could put a sub in and do the reload until 1766, but even that I'm not convinced about since that is still the middle of a war.

My suggestion is that, if Pinchak doesn't want to play, we agree OOC a Mayan Stabalization Pact (well it could be a represented in the story thread too). This means immediately IG Sparta and Rome offer peace to Maya, with no conditions. Rome will also offer them two major cities back (no idea if any handing back by Sparta is appropriate). Maya accepts. This gives a 10 turn enforced peace between all three, during which time the new sub can get on top of things, do some diplmo etc. Maya is still a viable state, compact, access onto both coasts, a major industrial city, a very rich shrine (i wish i had one of them!), lots of towns etc. - I'm not pretending it would be as big as before the war, but it would certainly be as viable/strong as many others in the game. By the end of the 10 turns of peace, we will be back to normal and lets be honest normal in this game has not meant large powers picking on small ones. I am no more likely to attack the Maya then than I have been likely to attack the Wynadot all game. Indeed look how Russia has faired recently! A player left that saying it was hopeless, but the new Russian player certainly seems to be having fun and making an impression.

This may also work well in terms of subs. Someone already from this game plays Maya now as this stabalisation pact gets underway. Then over the following 10 turns we try to find a new sub, but what we woudl be offering is a stable at peace small/mid sized country. A reasonable offer (rather than one in the midst of a war, and complicated by all these arguments).

Thoughts?

[St Jon]

On a lighter note.

Don't be too confused by the name change but poly have reactivated by old a/c.

FF now back as St Jon

[Robert]

Rome's suggestion is ok with me.
I'm willing to return Wonsan to the Maya.
The capitulation and Wonsan were always intended to be things I could give up during negotiations. And I'm also fine with not using capitulation at all anymore in any circumstance. (and I'll study ways to free Japan. Next turn I'll 'demand' something from Japan which can then be refused by him. Perhaps that'll break the capitulation)


Welcome back St. Jon

[Pitboss Celts]

Sorry to hear about HRE's father. Prayers and condolences to you and your family

[Pitboss Natives]

Sorry to hear about HRE's father. Prayers and condolences to you and your family

Yes, we concur with the Celtic Empire...A death in the family is always difficult, even when the passing is expected.

[St Jon]

Condolences - terrible time I know. The pain does go but the happy memories will always endure.

[Pinchak]

Hey sorry for missing some turns.

Truth be told, it is agonizing to log in and view the complete rape of my once great nation. Number 2 and 4 civ double teaming number 5.

And the taking of my capital? I thought this was a diplogame no-no?

That combined with the ever evolving rule set had really just caused me to lose interest. It's not that I plan on quitting, but if I miss a turn here and there it really doesn't bother me. (the timer seems to run completely down now a days anyway).

Plus, I have been really busy lately.

No need to reload, I will just continue from here.

[Pitboss Khmer]

Pinchak, If you can just spend a little time to diplo the end of the war with Rome and Sparta (including Rome's suggestions) that would be good.

As long as you are not at war and have your builds queued up logging in occassionally is not so bad.

But please, no AI. I will sub as last resort.

---

I would really appreciate it if Pinchak, Cyber and ozzy could have a private chat to thrash out differences so that we can all play in the next game. Let's not fall apart please.

In fact I'm prepared for that group and maybe Capo to frame the basic rule set that could be presented to the wider group in the next game.

[Robert]

Thanks for returning, Pinchak, and for 100% cooperation here. Really appreciated.
As Khmer said: you should've tried to diplo yourself more out of it, get mighty friends into the war, etc.

I'll wait with starting the game till I'm back from work. There's only 8 hours or so on the timer. If I continue now many won't be able to finish their turn b/c they're sleeping. (incl. Pinchak)

[Pitboss Rome]

pinchak glad to have you back.

Lets get this war ended in game.

[Robert]

Game has been restarted from the last safe. There's 7 hours left on the timer

@Maya: ignore my capitulation request. (unless you really want to be my vassal till the end of the game! it's not possible to cancel it!)

[Pitboss Rome]

I've logged in and completed the turn which was paused mid-way through. However, I have taken no action against the Maya - General Zuage is still alive and the wounded infantry survive.

I also intended to offer a peace treaty - offering the return of tulum and acapluco and peace, but i have just realised I have forgotten too. I will log in again and offer the treaty.

[Robert]

I'll also login to make a peace offer. (including the city of Wonsan)