Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread V]

[St Jon]

How much gold did Japan get from this acquisition? Are we going to just let him have it to help pay for the penalty? If so, that's bull****.

If that gold is split equally among Japan, Russia and Wyandot, I'll reverse my vote to yes. If you want to talk execution of the penalty later, I'll wait. However, I think the execution of the penalty is just as important as the penalty itself. If it is voted that the penalty stands and it cannot be executed, then we have all wasted our time.

I don't want Japanese Gold - let it go to a good home like you or England/America - I may want some of the 9000g, if it can be raised, later but I don't really need it as you guys do.

Japan did not get the techs for frigates and airships in an illegal way.

Cyber,

Have you done a re-load to check the truth of that? If so then OK and I will argue the small print after we have started moving forward again. I still think we all deserve to know just what Japan did steal and that as Maya says it must then be freely available to anyone lacking it. You cannot just trust the word of Japan that they stole Tech but just not that particular tech!

pp Russia

[Pitboss Portugal]

Easy, effective, and helps out the lower score civs as well.

Maya have a valid point here.

[Pitboss Natives]

The Wyandot Nation votes "Yes" to the penalty.

[Pitboss Rome]

I vote yes. Thank you Cyber for your efforts.

[Robert]

I have investigated this matter, then I have presented all suspicious things to japan and asked for an explanation.
Japan then admitted 3 techs he took from Piercia and explained the other suspicious things in such a very satisfying way that it took my suspiciousness away.

I'll look deeper into this later tonight (have to go now).

Regarding the Maya suggestion, I have considered that as well.
It's defenitely a good suggestion, to me the downsides outweighted the the good-sides.
I think there are multiple possible solutions here, I have picked one to not lose more time debating the best solution. If you guys reject this one we can discuss other solutions but I think that a longe delay will only hurt this game.

Players can vote for this penalty till this turn is over. Then I'll count the votes and present the results here

I'll go deeper into my investigation results later tonight.
Don't expect me to explain too much. I don't want to spoil Japans strategy. He deserves a penalty, imho, not a complete strategy sellout.

[Robert]

9000 gold penalty for Japan:
Yes: Metalheads, Sparta, Russia, Portugal, Wyandots, Rome
No: Celts, Maya
Abstain: -

[Pinchak]

I'm not happy at all about how this turned out.

Oh well, time to fix things IG.

[St Jon]

I'm not happy at all about how this turned out.

Oh well, time to fix things IG.

Don't worry Pinchak, it will be. Sooner or later the chickens come home to roost!

[Robert]

Decision regarding Japan

I've investigated the issue of Japan further and was shocked.
I have made a decision and saved the game before I did anything. If you guys disagree with what I've done we can reload and undo my decision.

But I expect everybody agrees.

Japan has not only cheated, he lied about it blatantly when I asked an explanation.
Here's what happened:

Players accused Japan from grabbing techs from Piercia.
I investigated this and concluded that Japan got 6 suspicious techs: Constitution, Chemistry, Nationalism, Banking, Biology and Theology.

All gotten during 2 turns while he got gunpowder the turn before. (which was expectable).

I confrontated Japan with this info and requested an explanation.
Japan answered me that he indeed took Theology, Banking and Nationalism, but got chemistry and Constitution through espionage (claiming he had a huge espionage network) and biology from me (A gift).

The last thing was true, I then realised.
This made me believe that the espionage stealing was true as well, especially because he was humble and admitted the stealing of 3 techs.

I told him that he had to be punished for this, and if he would accept a 9000 gold penalty.
He asked if he could pay it through gold gained by epionage.
I said 'yes' since that's just a valid in-game method to gain money.

This gold-through-espionage increased my trust that he had indeed a huge espionage network.

Now I investigated this issue even more it appears that the entire explanation is false.
He has no huge espionage network.
I was shocked to see that this was all a lie.

This guy did not only cheat 5 techs, he also blatantly lied about what happened and about how he could fix this.

I never believed people would be that evil and dishonest. People bending the rules in their own advantage, yes, but blatantly lying.....

Anyway, I think this has crossed the line far too much.
To quote Joey from 'Friends': "He has crossed the line that far......... the line is a dot to him!"

I've kicked Japan from the game, changed the password.
Let's just continue as if Japan has a real player, do your thing. Let's deal with this in-game further.
I'll fullfill the things Japan has to do to finish the 'piercian split deal'. (give settler plus workers to Spain)

It's very dissapointing that this has to be done, I see no other solution

CyberShy

[Pitboss Rome]

I haven't had a chance to think through the IG implications of this, but I respect your judgement on what was necessary - I certainly can't think of an alternative solution.

[Pitboss Spain]

I do see another solution to this problem, we start a new game and make sure we tighten up the rules so that this sort of thing does not happen again. But if we are going to continue, then Japan must pay the gold or be destroyed!

[St Jon]

Spain, Russia's attack on Japan was planned to start this turn anyway and the force I have mustered will destroy them, in Persia anyway, completely. I cannot reach the rest quickly enough but together we can. Cyber, Rome and Maya can all confirm that this was a pre-laid plan and was going to happen regardless of honesty or fines.

I am sorry but I think you may be right and this one just a step too far after Korea and Persia. If the game is that tarnished this badly it is hard to see how it can continue.

Cyber, I think we have a right - the entire community has a right - to know the identity of Japan as I for one want nothing to do with them in any game I might play in the furture!

[Pitboss Spain]

Russia/FF can you login ASAP, since i accidentally gave you the wrong city. I have rectified that on the turn i just played.

[Robert]

I have to look for his identity.
The original player of Japan left the game very early.
He was new at apolyton.
I suspect that the new player is this same player (also a new player on apolyton).
suspect = I'm almost absolutely sure.

I'd say: go ahead and do with Japan whatever you want.

Now we must continue this game.
If more complications occur the game is lost and Spain is right.
Lets make the best of it now.

[St Jon]

Cyber - I still want to know their real identity. I know that after this they will probably just switch again and rejoin but I think I'd recognise the childish of speech anyhow. Also people tend to stay with the same 'style' of name even if the name itself is different.