Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread V]

[Robert]

Ok, so far nobody is opposing Maya to grab Korea.
Rome's suggestion regarding the Korean cities on NP sound good to me.

I guess that Rome and Maya can work out the island-thing IG out themselves.
Like I'll work out the situation of Pusan IG out with Maya.

Since so far 100% of the players agree on this I'll restart the game as soon as I'm home (3 hours from now) then the game will be up for another +- 10 hours.

Rome: I'll keep an eye on the game to see if you can play your turn. If not then I'll just pause it in-game.

[Pitboss Maya]

I have no problem giving up the New Portuagal Korean city (there is no New Spartan city). Who gets it is another matter.

I'm not sure what island you speak of Rome. I didn't notice an island shared by Korea and Rome.

[Robert]

I have to work a couple of hours longer. Game will be up about 5 hours from the moment I post this msg. (unless of course people protest against all of this!)

[St Jon]

Like Rome I couldn't get in to finish my Turn. I started earlier but couldn't seem to do anything as people kept logging on while I was there. I needed to go out but when I came back the game was locked. So please can you reset the clock to give me some more time.

On Maya/Korea. I think best thing is that it is very easy to explain IG. Korea goes to war with Sparta, at home a very unpopular war, and gets beaten. Lots of dead Korean soldiers, no army left, economy ruined and Sparta poised for the kill. Korea collapses and her friend has 'no choice' but to step in and restore order. Korean people beg to become part of mighty Mayan Empire with no more bad government! Maya reluctantly agrees but Rome/Russia very worried about Mayan expansion. They force Maya, weakened by War, to give Russia Isaland shared with Rome - BTW Rome you are right about that city as could be good long term and other Island near NP(maybe I haven't looked at that one yet) - or new War when drained by helping Korea. Easy to run IG but not good for Rome/Russia long term I think is only realistic solution and has happened in real life. Now have Maya/Korea Federation much better than before but still not that great as those cities are no good for Gold or Hammer so not too big an advantage.

[St Jon]

New Info on Sanctions!

Please look at last Post of mine on Arguement/Debate Thread. VERY STRANGE THING HAS HAPPENED!!!

I think we have new problem to look into before we go any further!

[Robert]

Game's up again.
10 hours left on the clock.

Let's now all focus on gaming and storytelling again.

[St Jon]

Is there something amiss with the server? I can connect without a problem but when I start downloading the game data I just get a bar with a tiny bit of green which never increases until I lose connection. Only 4hrs on clock and I got to get to bed so looks like I will lose a turn. :-(

[Pitboss Celts]

I know there were differences!
I'm just trying to say: please let the weaker civs on our continent have some as well.

There is a large difference in sharing the wealth equally and what is happening here. Inca was divided amongst 6 civs (Metal, HRE, Funglish, Khmer, Celts, Spain - America was a 7th, and he politely turned down the spoils). Of all the civs, I gained the most with two cities due to me being one of the smallest nations with no room for expansion. None of us were greatly affected by the split of Inca.

Now, here we are with Japan getting the majority of the spoils of war because we don't want to find a sub for a player that quit. Inca was in the game (at least physically although he never posted). I'm all for helping out the weaker civs, and I think there parsing needs to be equalized.

[Pitboss Celts]

No news from him yet.
I'll mail him.
Since he didn't responded I guess he's not going to sub.
The Capo unfortunately didn't answer to my question to him to return to the game.

Perhaps you can ask him again, Maya?

He seemed quite adamant in his last post in the argument thread that he was not returning and no longer cared about the game.

[Pitboss Celts]

People have now had 48 hours to vote and the rest was a clear vote NOT to impose the penalty.

Seriously? I have a PM from Ozzy from over the past weekend that says the opposite. (9 of 14 said yes to a penalty)

[Pitboss Celts]

Yes, I did ask about assimilating Korea into Maya. Nobody responded.

This is not to say that I plan on fighting about it if the majority does not approve.

I'll put these facts on the table however...

1. Korea is mostly farms, not towns. Korea has no nested Great People. Most cities are between size 3-7. They have no military to speak of (except units I gifted them to hold off Greece). As I mentioned before when I made a request to assimilate, taking these cities has no short term benefit to Maya, although of course there could be long term benefit.

2. Nobody is going to log in every day and perm-sub Korea. Their economy is too ravaged, their tech times too long. The infrastructure is severely lacking.

3. Even by taking all the cities but the capital and an island city, Maya score only went up by 62 points (civstats verifies this). The reasons listed above explain why.

4. I am paying the peace request from Greece on behalf of Korea. Without this, Greece takes this land. Korea cannot defend itself, and I am not throwing more of my resources into Korea's defense. If Capo was still playing I probably would.


I don't know what the alternatives would be, but I'm done playing the Korean civ in tandum to my own. I can't even post as Korea.

I originally spoke up against it and then edited my post because I thought we had a sub for Korea. Here's an idea. Keep persia intact as you will be more likely to find a sub there. Split Korea amongst the smaller civs.

[Pitboss Russia]

Cyber, forget about poss server problem was my SP at fault so turn now complete.

[Pitboss Russia]

I originally spoke up against it and then edited my post because I thought we had a sub for Korea. Here's an idea. Keep persia intact as you will be more likely to find a sub there. Split Korea amongst the smaller civs.

It's all too late now. Persia is all but gone - only Pierced Hill left I think and that has no troops - and cities have changed hands across the globe. NP alone would require Spain, Portugal, Japan and a subbed Persia to co-operate to restore the situation. The Hamlet that I have got on NS is easier but could you afford over 15G per Turn maintaince on a city producing no revenue at all, without any infrastructure and 1 Hammer production? It's no joy for Russia so what would it do to Celtia? If you multiply that by the number of Korean minnow cities available you could bankrupt Celtia, American and Fungland many times over.

It's over and done with now but if you really want a tax drain I'll found you a city on NS myself, there's plenty of room, when I've managed to get this one and it's promised fellow under some form of control. Bear in mind that whilst fruitful NS has zero productive resourses - no coal, oil, uranium, iron or even bronze! You couldn't build a Phalanx there and Korea is no better just a lot more expensive with the buildings that will cost you high for no reward. Sadly you cannot run Battleships on Bamboo or, in the world of civIV, run a power-station on manure! If all you want is penury, more night-soil than any mortal man could dream of and an abundant supply of eco-friendly coffins, coolie hats, garden trellises, etc then Korea is the land for you. BTW. I forgot about the wonderful seafood - clam chowder for tea everyday!

[Pitboss Celts]

My point was not that the cities should go to anyone on my continent. I think it would have been easier to split Korea amongst players and find a sub for Persia without imbalancing the game such as it is now.

[Pitboss Russia]

My point was not that the cities should go to anyone on my continent. I think it would have been easier to split Korea amongst players and find a sub for Persia without imbalancing the game such as it is now.

I agree entirely regarding Persia and posted on it on several occasions but nobody seemed interested and now the deal is done.

I disagree with you on Maya/Korea for nobody would want the scraps that remain and the only good plot line for the story thread is a union. There are a couple of island cities that I would like and maybe Rome likewise but who else? You cannot make Sparta yet stonger for no effort, and even if you could I doubt that much of Korea would appeal. The Japanese economy could hardly stand the strain and would Wyandot or Portugal want villages the other side of the World?

Good or bad it's all gone too far to turn the clock back now.