Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread II]

[Pitboss Vikings]

ozzy either you sare naive or you telling lies

I can bet my last dollar that many of the players in this game have already made hidden alliances behind the scenes that will never be revealed.

People are still humna ozzy and do whatever they can to win.

Things liek that will occur for ever.

I am sure many other things have occured or will occur in this game that Rules will never be able to stop. such as knowing the map, pinchak is good in makking it , hopefully he honest and didnt speak nor show others.

Cyber saw it i know cyber is well repsected so i know he wouldnt show it.

But rumours abound about others thst know the map. Is it true, or it just rumours i dont know.

But please dont tell me i not know DIPLO. you may have played more games of it Ozzy, you may have even altered the way it is played to be more like a normal Civ game. But DIPLO is what i do, it is my religion so to speak in that i am a fundamentalist when it comes to DIPLO i see no need to have evolved it as the last 5 years have done.

[Pitboss Japan]

come on guys lets not spam this thread up with your fighting

[The Capo]

This is getting a little over the top, even for my obnoxious tastes.

@ Raz; First of all, yes there are bound to be secret political alliances, and they are bound to cause problems. In fact if you've ever studied political science these secret alliances are blamed for many wars that have occured and even in the real world there are/were movements to stop the practice. So if you were truly interested in creating a true diplomatic atmosphere, you will accept these types of alliances. Secondly I don't think Pinchak or Ozzy are refuting your position. They understand there are going to be secret agreements (you refer to them as alliances). Further Pinchak's point was that because of this fact, and the need to prevent it, we have utilized a voucher method which Ozzy says worked in HOTW XII. If this is the case you should believe him, and I myself have been gone from Diplogaming for a while and even I can tell you that in HOTW V these alliances didn't remain forever either. So I think you're being a little paranoid. Also since you brought up HOTW II I will tell you something that I personally went through. The problem with secret alliances is that they are SECRET, which means nobody else knows about them, which means they could be lies, they could be used against you even if you are in one. I was the Adriatic League, and I had a secret alliance with Israel. If I remember what occured correctly I marched a very large army through Israel (which comprised of the modern middle east and Iran), and planned on sending it through the himalaya mountains, hopefully undetected by Mongolia and striking their capital city while keeping them occupied along the Ural mountains. This was a secret alliance to keep Israel out of the war, which would leave India (Mongolian territory) unguarded and keep the Mongolian army occupied against me in Russia. This would have worked but that bastard Sun Tzu (that motherf*cking bastard) secretly worked with Mongolia, and they BOTH attacked me and destroyed practically a third of my army en route. Had that not happened things may have turned out differently. But the problem is secret alliances don't always work out for the people who make them, at least if they are made public there could be political ramifications.

Continuing along these lines, if you are all about Diplogames you shouldn't try and stymie a diplomatic option from a player. And with the voucher system there is at least a chance of preventing these secret alliances.

All that being said; why are you trying to player-hate on people witih secret alliances?

[The Capo]

Originally posted by Pitboss Japan
come on guys lets not spam this thread up with your fighting

And this isn't spam, this is an important debate about diplogames that has been going on since I can remember playing in them. Which is a while ago.

[Pitboss Japan]

it might be important talk but it isn't about anything conserning the game like timers. voting, and trade problems. so this "important conversation needs to be in the other thread not this one.

[Pitboss H Roman]

Yes - interesting debate.

Persia - interesting propsal you put forward - but I do think it would be tougher to administer. And I think the varying costs of civs reflect not only their relative vaulues, but their value thhrough the ages. For that reason I think the 15 voucher system is still valid. one needs to assess wheter the trade in question is worth a voucher or not. Pure and simple.

I still support the voucher system. And lets give it a chance in this game before we start trashing it.

(Ozzy - your version of thi post was just scribbled on papyrus and dropped in the mail. )

[Pitboss Vikings]

You have it all worng CAPO, i am not agaisnt the secret allainces, i am jsut stating that some voucher sysatem for tech trading is not going to stop the alliances lasting game long.

The alliances, secret or otherwise wil lbreak when the particpants see beeter allainces elsewhere.

Not becasue of a tech trading voucher system.

I think secret alliances are what makes Diplo more dangerous. because as with all things they get spoken about later and reveals the treu character of the player.

are they loyal? are they self seeking?

But it all part of DIPLO...

so no i not agaisnt them nor should anyone, jsut be aware thy exist and nothing will stop them hpapening.

[Pitboss Japan]

Originally posted by Pitboss H Roman


(Ozzy - your version of thi post was just scribbled on papyrus and dropped in the mail. )

[Pinchak]

I can bet my last dollar that many of the players in this game have already made hidden alliances behind the scenes that will never be revealed.

Raz, I think you are missing the point of having a tech voucher system. It is not to prevent permanent alliances or secret alliances.

It is to prevent alliances based primarily on tech trade. Due to the nature of these type alliances, they tend to become permanent. Even if it would be advantagous for a civ to break such an alliance, they usually won't because it would screw up the agreed upon "tech path".

With a voucher system, there is no motivation to lock yourself in with another civ or two or three for purposes of fulfilling tech promises. Alliances form and break more often, and for more natural reasons.

pinchak is good in makking it , hopefully he honest and didnt speak nor show others.

I have not shown anyone, spoke of anything, or looked at the map myself since creating it. To that I can swear.

[Pitboss Vikings]

thanks pinchak i unerstand that you think it will not keep alliances togeher jsut to enable trade.

so lets see what happens.


And if you say you didnt show i beleive you....

[The Capo]

I just had another thought;

The point of anonymous play was to prevent OOC issues from cropping up in the game, right?

Therefore, shouldn't our OOC chat be done completely OOC, and by that I mean using our normal log-ins as opposed to our "Pitboss Nation" log-ins?

Because arguments can arise and disagreements could lead to actual in-game hatreds. Just a thought.

[Pitboss Korea]

I wasn't saying we should do this, obviously I am not doing it now, I'm just saying in the end anonymous play is pointless, and just creates more crap to deal with.

In order to post in other threads or check my PMs under The Capo I have to logout anyway, so I'm just saying in the end its frivilous.

[deity]

I'd like to reassure Raz that it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY there are secret OOC alliances.

Firstly most of us don't know who the players are. I only know ozzy, MMC and Raz cos they exposed it in one way or other.

Secondly there could be IC alliances but that's IC! AND they will be very fragile because all the players can'y be certain who they are dealing with and what their track record might be - backstabbing and so on.

So, it's OK.

The voucher system and anonymous play and the experience ozzy speaks of has culminated in very balanced diplo games.

Stop getting paranoid Raz.

Just because you are doesn't mean 17 players are not out to get you..

[OzzyKP]

Ok, I am sick of all the spam in this thread. I'm not going to move it to the spam thread I'm just going to delete it. This is your only warning. I'm just gonna delete indiscriminately and encourage CS to do the same. Everyone needs to get MSN, Yahoo or AIM to talk that way and keep it off the forum.



(even though I did get a chuckle out of the Darth Vader thing)

[Robert]

So, you guys dislike my idea to close the org thread and only put really important msg here.
You guys also don't like Ozzy deleting stuff, right?

So, what do you propose to keep a healthy and clean org thread?