Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread II]

[MMC]

The chat thread was created to move the banter and drunken posturing out of this thread. By closing this thread you want to move everything else over there as well. Err... Why? Why not just make a new locked thread with the current rules and leave everything else as is.

[Pitboss Persia]

I agree with MMC.

Btw, when will you be able to take over your civ again ? I leafe for hollidays this WE.

[Pitboss Japan]

Don't use the OOC thread to debate your problems. Then people will complain that I’m spaming it up again which as why it was created. If you start using the OOC thread to debate and anyone starts *****ing about me spaming it up (ozzy) I will be extremely pissed of and even more hostel then I already am.

[MMC]

Originally posted by Pitboss Persia
I agree with MMC.

Btw, when will you be able to take over your civ again ? I leafe for hollidays this WE.

I'm on the ferry right now and will be back home in about 3 hours (give or take a bit).

[Pitboss Vikings]

Originally posted by Pitboss Persia


Hehe, this is a cute one. ^^

The further we go in years, the less years will pass per turn. In the latest years, (1950+ IIRC) 1 turn = 6 month, while anything before BC means 1 turn = 25 years.

So be sure that we are far from reaching the 2/3 of the game as you may think. VERY far.

ahh you respond to my point in a normal civ game type of way.

You forgetting this is DIPLO.

so as far as story telling goes. People have been ALLIED for close to 4000 years. forget how many turns that is or howe many turns are to come.

Try to find in histroy any one that could keep the same alliance going so long. A few hundre years is a long time.

So i was basing my response on it being DIPLO story based. Not turns based.

[OzzyKP]

ZOMG people are writing stories here on the INTERNET when they haven't invented the internet yet! Some civs haven't even invented writing yet!

I demand that there be NO posts until everyone invents writing. And even then we must all mail them to each other instead of using this "internet" thing that violates the strict rules of diplo.

PS - Remember to write the posts on papyrus until your civ invents paper.

[Pitboss Korea]

I am not trying to trash you or anything Raz, but who exactly is allied right now?

Korea hasn't been "allied" with anyone, in fact we were at war with Maya for a few hundred years, and as far as I can tell the Greeks at least politically supported the Mayans at first. Now we have border agreements with both, but I wouldn't call that an alliance.

For your part you were once at war with Japan, now it seems they are helping you in your fight against the barbarians.

And as far as your DIPLO argument goes; while I understand your point, this is still a game of civilization and it wouldn't make too much sense if people were allies for only one turn or two at a time, let alone PART of a turn. So I think you're jumping the gun a little bit on this issue.

[MMC]

Lolz at Ozzy. My sentiments exactly.

Whilst 4000 years may have passed, only about 150 turns out of a possible 750 turns have been played. An alliance at this stage simply refers to an informal agreement to work together, nothing more. Also don't forget that most (successful) alliances in history only lasted as long as the civs who honoured them. How many civilisations managed to survive 4000 years? Think about that when you complain that the alliances have lasted too long, especially since most of them haven't actually been put to the test yet.

[MMC]

Also, can Percia please send me a summary of what happened in the Funglish Dominion (if anything) over the last week via PM or MSN.

[Pitboss Korea]

@ Ozzy; ME-OW

[Pinchak]

determined before the game has come up again for debate/discussion

The tech voucher concept was agreed upon prior to the game by a majority, and clearly spelled out in the first post of the Tech Trade Thread.

The only reason it has come up for discussion and debate again is because now AFTER the fact, people want to second guess the validity of it.

It is true that it does penalizes charity, and to date there is no easy way of addressing this without introducing complicated rules that are hard to track.

What the voucher system DOES do is prevent alliances based on tech trade, which seem to dictate alliances in non-voucher games.

[Pitboss Japan]

we should all listen to the wise Pinchak.

[The Capo]

Originally posted by Pinchak

It is true that it does penalizes charity, and to date there is no easy way of addressing this without introducing complicated rules that are hard to track.

What the voucher system DOES do is prevent alliances based on tech trade, which seem to dictate alliances in non-voucher games.

He's totally right. And I've already explained how you could at least not get punished; ask for a voucher (or maybe two) in return from the civ you gift a tech to, that way you either don't lose a voucher or gain a voucher. Chances are the other civ doesn't need them as they will not really have anything to trade themselves (otherwise they wouldn't be in a situation where they need charity).

Secondly he is right about the voucher system keeping static alliances. The same thing Raz is complaining about by the way. So I think this is the best way to do it, and as I've said before, we should keep it in place.

[Pitboss Vikings]

only time and honesty will reveal the alliances behind the scenes...

we all know they are occuring already, not the ingame ones we post about, but the hidden secret alliances.

They occur every game.

I not saying they shouldnt occur, i jsut saying the ttech voucher syatem does nothing to prevent them .

I am all for secret hidden alliances. it makes the game more interesting.
well it did in the past see HOTW 2 for good examples.

[OzzyKP]

Raz, I know this is hard to accept, but diplogaming continued on after HOTW2. Lots of games have been played. Lots of us here have a lot of experience in diplogames and to be frank, you are no longer an expert in them. If you won't accept the logical arguments many are putting forward, then please accept the experience of those who are putting them forward. HOTWXII totally broke the stagnate alliance problem that had plagued previous games. The tech trade limit was a big part of that.

It has been done, it has worked, and it made the game much better. Please listen to those of us with more experience in the matter.