Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Tech Trade Thread]

[Pitboss Vikings]

Originally posted by Pinchak
Vikings, the 15 tech trade rule was established prior to the game starting.

You are expected to adhere to it, and for the sake of tracking, posting trades in this thread.



This allows for verification of the tech trade. At least that was the reason for stating the tech when we used a tech trade cap last time.

many things were supposedly agrred to, i never voted yes to informing of any tech trades, but seeing i on bottom of list of civs, i wont have to post any here....

[Pinchak]

I'll be honest, I don't know why it is important to declare what tech it was.

I'll let Cyber make that call. Also let him deal with civs who don't want to post their tech trade status here.

[Pinchak]

bump

[Robert]

I think it's important to log the tech trade, but I'm afraid that it'll be impossible to enforce such a rule, certainly if some civs aren't willing to do it.....

We could also setup a new mail-address to which the actual deals can be mailed. Then we can check if all players followed the rules after the game has finished.

We can give a 1 point penalty on the final diplogamescorelist for everytime a civ failed to report correctly.

That way tech trading is completely hidden but we can enforce the rules.

(in the end a civ can gain 4x18 points at most (when it wins every category), getting 5 penalty points for failing to report 5 techs or trading 5 techs too many can make a difference)

[Pinchak]

I'm afraid that it'll be impossible to enforce such a rule, certainly if some civs aren't willing to do it.....

Not only is it enforceable, it is expected. This was one of the few rules we spelled out in black and white before the game started.

We can give a 1 point penalty on the final diplogamescorelist for everytime a civ failed to report correctly.

If we really expect people to follow this rule then it should be 5 points. One point is a hand slap and almost implies that it is ok to break the rule if you are alright with a slight penalty.

From your wording I am assuming you stand behind posting of trades as opposed to everyone keeping their own running tally?

[Pitboss Korea]

Its hard to say what to do. I wouldn't cheat at all, but I also wouldn't win at all so it doesn't matter enough for me TO cheat. That can't be said for other people, and I know there are people out there who HAVE suggested cheating to me before in other games (I won't name names, but they know who they are), so I'm not going to sit here and say it won't happen.

But it shouldn't happen, there's no reason for anyone to cheat in a game that is supposed to be fun. I don't know what to tell you guys, I'd rather not have to report what I am doing to you all the time, much less tell you the exact techs I'm trading. But I'll do it if it is the only way to prevent cheating.

Although I don't think telling you what the tech was is that important, at least not publicly. And as I've said before over other issues, if you are also players in the game I don't think there is a reason to tell you at all. We need an objective person.

[Pitboss Vikings]

just re read the organisation threads and didnt see asingle VOTE on the Tech trading system and what must or must not be posted.

We had a few votes about anon and pangea maps but not on the voucher system.

Had far more discusion on the Double turn issue early but that too was never resolved as seen in game already.

Another thing never voted on was the minimum expectation of posting stories etc, this too not voted on and again is an issue in the game.

so based on the fact that despite the discussion and so forth in the TWO organsiatio nthreads, the gentlemens agreements was to use the voucher system, but it was also a few other gentlemens agreementts in there too that are not being follwoed.

So there fore there should be no penalty for not following this "Rule" which is by all other standards not a rule.

Yes you guys have peeved me off with the non adherance of the DIPLO Gentlemen agreements so the reason for this post.

We cant penalise for not following this without taking action over other items.

[Pinchak]

Your a real piece of work Raz. Did you sniff magic markers as a child?

[Pitboss Japan]

corect me if i'm wrong but the point of the game is to have fun not win right? if this is so then taking off points at the end doesn't mean a dam thing. there has to be a better way to enforce the rule.

[Pitboss Vikings]

Originally posted by Pinchak
Your a real piece of work Raz. Did you sniff magic markers as a child?

Yep and it was good!!!


But makign personal attacks doesnt resolve the basic issue here.

We have one set of "Rules" unenforced and unactioned and you want another one to be Enforced.

Personally this wont affect me as i wont be leading in any tech race to be able to trade any techs with anyone. So i wont need to post here.

But if this game is to return to any semblence of a diplo game it must be governed by the community not by the bigger tribes.

Things agreed to in the organsiation thread was for None of the top players to pick a Fin or IND trait civ, yet the Maya who are obviously a good player chose both.

Just remeber this when determining the voting system for any winner.

But as Japn rightly says this was not meant to be about winning or losing , but about enjoying the journey.

Japan at least is keeping the game entertaining.

So is the Wynadot and Percian tribes.

And also Portugul and Rome, Russia starting to come on board too.

So well done to you people. Keep it up.

[Pinchak]

No personal attack, just a question, which you confirmed to be true, not that it comes as a surprise, at all.

Out of sheer curiosity, I looked up your profile here on Apoly.

Two shocking things...

First of all, you appear to be an adult! With a beard no less! No offense, but your use of logic (or rather lack thereof) and disregard for factual accuracy convinced me you were MUCH younger.

Secondly, it says you are a trainer. Now I HAVE to ask, what on earth do you train people to do?

[Pitboss Vikings]

you ask for facts and i stated many of them in above posts.

Firstly. There was no VOTE on Tech trading

Only an understadning posted by Cyber and agreed to by a few people.

Secondly fact, no action was taken over other breaches of GENTLEMANS rules in game.

so what part of my logic do you not follow.


No as to the personal information.

I am 42 yrs of age. I am a Techical Skills trainer in the oil industry. worked in inductry for 22 years last 4 years in Training.

[Pinchak]

I am a Techical Skills trainer in the oil industry. worked in inductry for 22 years last 4 years in Training.

It took them 18 years to figure out you probably shouldn't actually be working WITH the oil?

I'm sorry dude, your right, personal jabs are out of line. You just tend to remind me of certain people I know in real life, the sort of people who are always quick to point out problems (usually without knowing the whole deal), and never have any solutions.

Which is alright I guess. We all have our own opinions about things.

Anyhow, if you are not going to adhere to the 15 tech trade rule then neither am I.

[Pitboss Vikings]

You need to go back thorugh all my posts and see i always hav esolutions but no one wishes to take them on board.

My solution for the Double move was to restart the game

My solution for taking the worker was to give it back

My solution for not aboding by the communities decision to give back worker was to kick him fro mthe game

I always have solutions not just problems. You just need to remeber a solution isnt jsut something you agree with, it is an option to consider and i always have them.

Being who i am , the personal attacks you make are no deal to me, words or such like never hurt me. I am who i am and i am comfortable with that.

I call it as i see it, I am not here to placate people and make everyone feel good.

Fact of the matter is your lack of action over the above items has altered my willingness to follow your "Rules".

But as i already stated. I wont have any techs to give to others so i wont need to post any trades.

You will have techs you trading so by your own "rule" you should post here about them.

[Pinchak]

Really, the solution to ALL these problems is that someone should have spelled certain rules out in black and white before the game started, instead of the INCREDIBLY problematic approach of "we will deal with it when it becomes an issue."

I was almost certain we agreed on a tech trade cap of 15, and it wasn't "my" rule just for clarification. All I did was create a thread by which we could track it so that we wouldn't get into a situation where some players are adhering and some are not.

The biggest difference I see between the tech cap and the double move thing is that the tech cap was clearly spelled out ahead of time. The double move went all over the place from "lets just do the honor system" to "12 hours, 8 hours, 6 hours, etc..."

A rule that ambiguous is bound to be broken by someone eventually, then there is a big stink about it, THEN what should have been done before the game started finally gets done, the rule is clearly defined.

That being said, I actually sympathized with the maya in that whole deal. I personally made a big deal about clarifying the double move before we started because my experience in past pitboss games is that it ALWAYS becomes an issue (more than once too, mark my words it will become an issue again in this game even with the new clarification).

Comparing that situation to the 15 tech trade cap is apples and oranges however. This is one example of many where your logic is muddled Raz. And why you would hold animosity for this rule because of what the maya did is another mystery. Is the mentality that they broke a rule and nothing was done, so I am going to break one???

But honestly, I have given up on trying to figure you out.