Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread]

[Toni]

A compromise is needed here guys. Korea I still think you can get back from this setback.

NEGOTIATE...

Also do not forget that many now will not trust Maya, thus it will be hard on him to make friends and trade with people. The more he demands from you the more he deminishes any coorporation in the future with others.

So atleast make a counter offer and see what happens.

Giving up the easy way is not the answer.

[Pitboss Korea]

I don't mean the attack. I mean the attack without a story and with cheap tactics.

If he had written up a story and posted it with his invasion (instead of posting it only after being called on not providing a roleplaying rationale for his action), I would have been fine roleplaying along. Foreign domination fits in nicely with Korean history, after all.

What I can't accept is having to negotiate from a position of weakness caused by cheating and bad behaviour. This is the whole reason I've been posting in this thread and not in the other.

We didn't tell the poor guy whose starting city was in the ocean to be reasonable and roleplay it out, even though having an Atlantean civ might have made for good roleplaying. I don't think I should be told to roleplay out unfair conditions either.

[Toni]

Just to stress one thing that double move by Maya on you, wasn't such a horrific move. YES i agree like the rest that its a cheat. But after all he didn't use it to kill a worker or attack your city or even attack your armies.

He just moved next to your capital, he didn't gain any advantage by doing the double move. If he was planning on this he would have done it anyway with a reg move and be there where he wanted to be.

YES Double is bad, but nothing was gained, he now has the upper hand only because you attacked him. (i know you said that was a bad move on your part)

[Toni]

Korea stay please!

[Pitboss Vikings]

and as in all games they are ruined by the cheating of others.

The punishment should be handed out to Maya, not Korea.

[Pitboss Vikings]

oops double post

[MMC]

Originally posted by Pitboss Korea
We didn't tell the poor guy whose starting city was in the ocean to be reasonable and roleplay it out, even though having an Atlantean civ might have made for good roleplaying. I don't think I should be told to roleplay out unfair conditions either.

Whilst I would have enjoyed a water start if it had been possible, I know from experience that units starting on water cannot move, nor do anything. I would not have been able to even create a city.

On the other hand, Korea is perfectly able to replace the lost Warrior. Both side made mistakes, and no-one is being punished. Korea has the advantage in that they have nothing to lose (the game WILL be reset if their only city is taken), so they can dictate terms to the Mayans, however they should be willing to forgive and forget when no real permenant harm has been done.

I would however recommend the following (if Ozzy and Cyber agree):

• Maya agrees to defend all of Korea's units from all agression (where possible) for 10 turns or the time it takes for Korea to produce a new Warrior (whichever is longer).
• Maya offers financial aid equal to the cost of the lost Warrior (one off payment - to be paid as soon as the mechanics allow). Alternatively, Maya could simply gift a Warrior to Korea and call it quits.
• Both side agree to peace lasting a minimum of 25 turns.
• Both sides accept an informal warning: War in-game can be fun, but OOC squabbling is no fun for anyone.
• All involved parties (including myself, Ozzy, Cyber, the Vikings, etc) agree that what happened shouldn't have happened and will not happen again. The matter is then closed and we simply get on with life (and the game).

[Pitboss Korea]

Include the worker he took from me in the meantime, and this is acceptable.

[Robert]

Originally posted by Pitboss Korea
What he did was not ok, not in the spirit of the game and not supported by roleplay. Yet he gets to keep on doing it, and gets to keep on trying to use it to gain advantage out of the situation. Why am I the one asked to be reasonable? Why should I believe that he won't be able to get away with pulling more such crap again?

You both need to be reasonable.
We've all 'yelled' at the maya for what he did, and I have also made clear that taking your worker wasn't good form either.

But to solve an issue with two parties both parties need to point their finger at themselves and not at each other. As long as you guys keep pointing at each other the issue won't be solved.

I see a problem with the mayans that they are taking a worker while we try to figure things out, b/c of a situation he created by ignoring a rule. (on purpose or ignorantly)

The problem with korea is that he apparantly isn't willing to negotiate a solution.

My question to the mayan is: return the worker and don't try to get profit from a situation where you came by a violation of the rules.

My question to corea is: be willing to negotiate a reasonable peace deal.

Corea is the victim, but even a victim should react reasonable and keep the other 16 players in mind.

[Robert]

Take MMC's proposal as a first idea for the peace negotiations.
The worker issue shouldn't be a part of the deal. That's just something that needs to be done anyway.

[MMC]

Hummm... Warriors are cheap. Workers are not. Since the proposed agreement calls for the gifting of a Warrior as well as time to build a new Warrior, you could replace one of those clauses with an equal one involving a Worker. Thus:

• Maya agrees to defend all of Korea's units from all agression (where possible) for 10 turns or the time it takes for Korea to produce a new Warrior (whichever is longer).
• Maya offers financial aid equal to the cost of the lost Worker (one off payment - to be paid as soon as the mechanics allow). Alternatively, Maya could simply gift a Worker to Korea and call it quits.

etc...

[Pitboss Korea]

We are attempting to work the situation out right now.

[MMC]

BTW, I am willing to act as a mediator in any other dispute of this type if necessary. However, in a diplogame, players should carry out their own negotiations wherever possible. Third-party mediation should be a last restort only.

[Pitboss Vikings]

If the koreans are happy with the deal then the issue is over. My only concern was that the original deal was all in the benifits of the mayan ie. a border deal after he had broken (intentionaly or accidently) the rules of the game.

So provided the koreans can accept a deal that maintains them having fun in the game i will stop my whining and complaining about the situation.

[Pitboss Korea]

Alright, he's agreed to the peace and to giving my worker back. Play on.