Pitboss Diplomacy Game

[Toni]

I will select a new civ. If CS ca nsend the new list to Pinchak so he can continue his map magic.

Also from my understanding we have a map with 3 conts, 2 with civs on them and a 3rd left empty for settlement later on?

[WarningU2]

I haven't paid much attention since picking my own civ and leader ... I could read back all the posts here but is the debate now on the map and mod?

When are we planning on starting this?

[Pinchak]

If CS ca nsend the new list to Pinchak so he can continue his map magic.

Mayday, mayday.... Houston, we have a major problem.

I made the map by selecting a single player game with 18 random civs (thinking I could change these at anytime without much effort).

As far as I can tell however, I cannot change the civs!

In worldbuilder it only gives me the options (ie. placing a settler) for the civs the game started with!

I have tried about twenty different things to get around it, but no luck so far.

Well, if the current map is phucked, I could start on a new one with a promased ETA of next weekend (when Cyber gets back). I actually learned alot making this first one, and could probably make a better second one.

Questions for anyone who might know...

1. If I entered worldbuilder in single player with civs selected, is there anyway to get it so that I can change the civs? (thus saving my current project)

2. If I do need to start over, what exactly is the proper procedure so that I don't run into this problem again? Select 18 civs and make them open instead of random or something?

[OzzyKP]

Open the save in a text editor. Then you can change the civ names and leaders that way.

[Pinchak]

Thanks for the quick responce Ozzy.

I am going to also assume that since I started in single player with certain options selected (not sure which we will end up using for our game) that this is also not a problem?

[OzzyKP]

You can edit options in the text editor.

Btw, don't forget HOTW XII.

[WarningU2]

Therefore I would like to put the following rule on the table for voting. EIGHT HOUR RULE: If you find yourself the last to play a turn (thus causing it to flip) you cannot declair war or attack a unit for 8 hours after ending that turn.

Hmmm reading back a few pages ... jeeze you guys have been busy ... I see the above so I'll wade in and add my thoughts to the double move quandry debate.

I have found by playing several pitboss games there is a very effective means to handle it, provided everyone agrees up front.

Double moves are prohibited during times of war between opposing players but ... if the player fails to take his move within his / her allotted time then a double move is permitted. Let me explain how it works.

All players agreed to play the game fairly and honestly at the start. All players agreed to not taking advantage of game mechanics or game limitations to manipulate the game results. One of these being the double move. Double moves are prohibited at times of war unless a player fails to take his turn within 4 hrs of the game turn end.

It will make more sense with an example ...

1) Player A takes his turn at 12.50 into a 18. hr game turn
2) Player B takes his turn at 16.40
3) Clock turns over and a new turn begins
4) Player B has a RL event that evening so signs in early and plays his turn at 2.40 into the new turn. He finds Player A and declares WAR. (although Player B had moved last this double move was allowed as he was not at war at the start of the turn)
Double Move rule is now in effect between these two players.
5) Player A plays his turn at 10.10 into the new turn discovers he's at war with Player B. Moves a unit in preparation of battle.
6) Player B must play his turn next turn within 14 hrs of the clock
NEW TURN
7) Player A checks CIVstats at 12.10 and finds that Player B has not moved yet. He signs on and looks around and plans his next move but signs out waiting for Player B.
8) Player B hasn't moved by 14.20. when Player A next signs in to play his turn (he has to go to work and would miss his turn now if Player B plays just before 18.00 (running the clock). Player A legitimately takes his move (a double move) and out flanks his opponent since Player B is AWOL. Now Player B is up next to play his turn
NEW TURN

9) Player B missed the previous turn entirely. He signs in for the new turn at 9.00 and plays his turn. Seen he's been outflanked because he got drunk in RL and fell asleep. His bad.
10) Player A takes his turn 11.00 hrs into the game.

The game progresses in this way with a minimal amount of whining and complaining about double moves.

Simplicity is the key for effective rules. This type of rule is good for a number of reasons.

1) it ends the double move debacle

2) it allows the game to progress rapidly... it encourages people to play early.

3) it provides a sense of realism in that in that on the battle field it was often the troops that marched all night and out flanked their opponent that won the battle.

Any ways my two cents or likely a dime of wisdom that you can decide to use or poke holes in ... I'll agree to whatever the majority want here but I think its more playable than the 8 hr rule proposed ... I think that is too rigid and will slow the game.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
You can edit options in the text editor.

Btw, don't forget HOTW XII.

QFT

[Pinchak]

I'll agree to whatever the majority want here but I think its more playable than the 8 hr rule proposed ... I think that is too rigid and will slow the game.

Well at least most people agree we need some sort of "wait X number of hours until double moving" rule.

Personally, I think 4 is too short. All things being equal the defending player would have a 1/6 chance of happening to login and play their responce turn before the 4 hour window elapsed. (24/4=6) At least a 8 hour window would discourage people from simply waiting out the time then logging back in and playing their second turn. Now I understand that everyone would supposedly be playing "honorably", but frankly I think your faith in peoples ablity to be honorable is stronger then mine.

Of course there are lots of arguements for a longer times and shorter times.

I wouldn't be opposed to a 6 hour rule. I just think 4 is too short. A longer window won't slow the game down because with 18 players chances are that the turn timer is going to max out at 24 hours on a frequent basis anyway.

As a side note, I fully agree with your three points Warning. Keep in mind though that a longer wait window would stress #2 even more.

[snoopy369]

4 is far too short. For a 24 hour timer, 8 is the minimum and 12 is really more appropriate.

Don't forget to include the turn BEFORE the war as well as the turn of the war - as opposed to what was posted a few posts above. Double moving to start a war is really worse than doing it during a war.

[Robert]

Originally posted by bamf226


This is sad news indeed. I thought you said you could play if we started it up as soon as the map was finished. I will be leaving town Saturday morning and not returning until the end of the month. Should I resign now and allow someone else to take my spot so as not to hold up the game?

I can play any day.
But I can't startup my pitboss server from belgium
Thus as a host you have to wait till I return.

I suggest we just wait till the 1st of June to start. Then you are back as well.

Toni: I will select a new civ. If CS ca nsend the new list to Pinchak so he can continue his map magic.

You still haven't selected your civ.

Open the save in a text editor. Then you can change the civ names and leaders that way.

That doesn't fix the starting techs.
Does it fix the traits? Or does it just only change the names of the civs?

isn't it one can fix with 'chiptotle' or something?

4 is far too short. For a 24 hour timer, 8 is the minimum and 12 is really more appropriate.

I say 12 hours.
We have a 24 hour timer, wait 12 hours at least is reasonable.

Nobody sleeps 12 hours, nobody works 12 hours.
And if the other player moved within the 12 hours, the other player can obviously move earlier as well.

[Pinchak]

I suggest we just wait till the 1st of June to start.

Gives me more time to work on the map.

That doesn't fix the starting techs.

Ok, I need a guru to at least confirm that I CAN fix this problem of the civ choices. If not then I certainly don't want to put any more time into it, and need to start on a second one ASAP.

I say 12 hours.

12 sounds good to me. I threw out 8 to apease those who though 12 was too long. In general people tend to play their turns the same time each day, so 12 would allow this without the turn flipper having to adjust his schedual.

[WarningU2]

I threw 4 hrs out as an example not suggesting it was the time to use.

12 hrs is too long IMHO ... 6 hrs is reasonable. This gives each player 18 hrs (on a 24 hr turn timer) to move during the double move protection time.

[Heraclitus]

I agree 12 is too long.

[snoopy369]

8 hours is generally the compromise used elsewhere; it is the normal duration of sleep, and of work, so you are likely to have at least one point every 8 hours to play.