HOTW XII Diplogame Organization Thread. Part 2

[Diplo Mongolia]

and I could go to pitboss if there was a unanimous consent for it. but I can't host.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Diplo Holland

Can America outline its 10 trades? A difficult task - not their fault perhaps but it does mean the rule is unworkable. Or, it means they need to do the same as the Otts and follow up all details with all subs who played their civ.

Ozzy and others, can you update on tech trades?

Holland has played everty minute of this game with no sub and can vouch 100% for its trades. One left, and as last posted.

I'm not sure why I am under specific scrutiny when it comes to tech trades... I've been keeping track as best I am able and I believe I am at the limit now.

Techs I've traded:
Iron Working - Carpathia
Archery - Carpathia
Calendar - Carpathia
Compass - Mali
Paper - Carpathia
Military Tradition - Russia
Liberalism - France
Steel - France
Physics - Mongolia

and... I think there is one I'm forgetting... maybe another trade with Russia, I'm not sure. That'd be pretty cool if I still had one trade left, but I was sure I was at the limit.

Either way, I don't think I am over the limit and don't see why anyone is suspicious of me in particular. Are there specific accusations of impropriety? Or are people suspicious about my turnaround? Or... what?

Originally posted by Diplo Ottoman
A civ when I am not there America does not keep its deals.

The AI canceled the deal one session while I was away. I don't often go and check to make sure all my deals are still valid, so I seriously didn't notice this until this session when you told me. I immediately restarted the payments.

If you had told me a session or two ago (or my sub) that America's AI had stopped gold payments I'm sure I or my sub would have restarted them immediately then too. I don't know why you delayed so long in letting me know and were then bitter about it. I apologize, but I was completely unaware of it.

Also, for America's part, with Carpathia AI for like 5 weeks, the half of the shrine gold we were promised from our old treaty never came to us. This certainly had a big negative impact on our economy, but I never had a human player to negotiate with so sadly America is out of that income. Thankfully now we have the shire ourselves, but most of the financial buildings in Oradea have been destroyed due to the conquest, so that is more lost income. But I suppose things will work out in the end.

So I'm just trying to say that I sympathize with the Ottomans and didn't at all try to screw you. I gave you more gold per turn this session to make up for it.

[Diplo France]

Who is in favor of switching this game to Pitboss?

France - YES
Holland - YES
Inca -
Russia - NO
Mongolia - YES
America - YES
Mali -
Ottomans -

Also, who here can host it?

France -
Holland -
Inca -
Russia -
Mongolia - NO
America - NO
Mali -
Ottomans -

[deity]

ozzy, you are under no suspicion whatsoever regarding tech trades. I totally trust you act in accordance with the best info you have available.

I was simply asking for updates from all players and wondered if the 10 trade rule is workable when a game uses so many subs.

[Diplo Ottoman]

I have said before and I will say it again that pitboss is uesless to me, I cannot make time to play civ every day which is required with pitboss, unless you want to handicap my civ even more.

[Diplo Ottoman]

When I first spoke of moving to the new world, Inca agreed to get several cities in New Holland to trade for several of my cities, final specifics to be negotiated later. Even though they have 1 city at least there, they backed out of deal.
Holland I understood would also get several cities there also to trade with me. They never founded more than one to trade, another disappointment. The cities Mongols got as part of forced peace treaty was also offered to them as part of tech/gold/military deal, which they were very receptive to at the time, later made a vague offer of out of date units followed by threats.
I was given substantial encouragement initially to make the move to the New World by many civs, but when it came time to deliver, all failed to match their talk.
France I think it is questioned why I wanted to move to the New World. It is obvious. I had a civ, less than all others, 4 cities had lost up to half of their working squares to other civs culture despite building every possible culture building available and more working squares were going to be lost. This left me with only 3 cities that were pretty well fully functioning, but because to get 7 cities I had to pack them in tight, I still did not have 20 working squares in any of these cities, so growth was limited even in those.
Despite those major disadvantages I kept a civ that functioned fairly well through to about time I learnt democracy, but by them I was unable to draw any more from the civ, hence the attempted move to the new world, which could have worked well if the talk of civs matched their actions.
But noone delivered on their promises resulting in me accepting Americas less than satisfactory compensation just so I could reduce colony costs a bit, as having 7 cities left in Old World after moving capital, many functioning at half capacity due to lack of working squares would have been too costly.
Also France, Mongols sabotaged you to trigger your war with me. They were planning their assault, but wanted my attention diverted. So fight them, they are the guilty ones.

[Diplo Ottoman]

France stated I have a advanced civ, a glance at the tech trading screen reveals only Mali seem to have less techs than me, I have camouflaged my weakness there by prioritising some military techs and ignoring many other techs. Considering the fact I am surrounded by many other powerful civs, this was necessary, but it does not undo the fact that only Mali are behind me in technology, and that will obviously not be for long.
The simple fact is that the map design left me with a civ that could not continue growing and therefore stagnated, attempts to get better cities offshore foundered because of France's privateers.

[Diplo France]

Well you had an advanced civ at the time you where building your ships, you had a fully developed cottage economy. You had the imperialistic trait which should have had you spawning settlers very qucikyl. You talk about upkeep, but you seem to purposefully neglect the Forbidden palace. With it anyciv can have a nation based on two continents without any colony upkeep! All you would have had to do is build a forbidden palace (which gives some extra culture) in a OW city that is not your capital then build a normal palace in the NW.
You could have been a pretty big colonial power without selling off your colonies (even if you did not get the entire continent).

The Incans agreed to sell and then canceled? I would encourage the Incas to stick to the deal and sell that city, there is no good reason to have it there, no valuable resource, no excellent city spot its only purpose could be a military base to strike at targets in NH.

Originally posted by Diplo Ottoman

Also France, Mongols sabotaged you to trigger your war with me.

If this is true we would be most annoyed with the Mongols.

[Heraclitus]

Nice story posts! Its good to see people are posting again, it really helps revive this game.

[Diplo France]

Who is in favor of switching this game to Pitboss?

France - YES
Holland - YES
Inca -
Russia - NO
Mongolia - YES
America - YES
Mali -
Ottomans - NO

Also, who here can host it?

France -
Holland -
Inca -
Russia -
Mongolia - NO
America - NO
Mali -
Ottomans -


@Ottomans & Russia: A turn a day would not take more than 15 min, in one week that is 105 min, that makes it an hour and 45 min. pitboss would slow us down turn-wise but would take less time. Sure there are people who wouldd play their moves intensivley but nothing is forcing you to do the same.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
Nice story posts! Its good to see people are posting again, it really helps revive this game.

Everyone else post too!

[Diplo Inca]

I vote NO for Pitboss game, but if reg sessions are not possible anymore i guess i have no choice but to say YES.

I prefer much more that we schedule a serious session which all can make, just like last session (even if its in 2-3 weeks) than to have HOTW 12 become a pitboss game.

Why because Pitboss games just can't compare to the real thing all being there arguing and fighting all the time

[Diplo Inca]

So we have no France and Ottos for this weekend.

Ok if we are not playing this weekend,

Let all players post their availability for the next 3 weekends.

France being the main issue here (damn you ) You need to tell us what is your availability.

Inca can play all upcoming weekends



After all post we will know what is going on.

[OzzyKP]

We went all out to schedule an unheard of 5 hour session last week and only made it through 25 turns. Things aren't going to get any better than that. Having 25 frustrating turns every 2-3 weeks is going to do far more damage to this game than Pitboss could.


Upcoming weekend availability:

June 14/15 - Yes
June 21/22 - Very difficult for me, I'm heading to the beach early on Sunday so I'd really rather not drive on like 4 hours of sleep.
June 28/29 - Yes
July 5/6 - No
July 12/13 - No

[Diplo France]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
We went all out to schedule an unheard of 5 hour session last week and only made it through 25 turns.

:frownyes: