Diplogame Rules and Victory Discussion

[LzPrst]

as for anything done that you want to keep a secret until the book-keeping tally at the end (we will likely be keeping score each session to avoid confusion later) just take a screenshot when it says "You have been the first to invent Liberalism" and send it to the book-keepers after the game (or when it is no longer important). If you forget to do it when the message first appears, open the chat box log and look in events, then printscreen the message from there. if you totally forget, pray that the book-keepers are well informed about your civ...

speaking of book-keepers, I have offered myself up as a bookie, but we should have 2 for each session in order to be double certain that we dont make mistakes. any other volunteers?

[Rasputin]

if you going to stop the game when a INGAME victoy is acheived then that is it. No second prizes for who was going to launch next (although my personal preference is for no SPACE at all it detracts from the diplo of the game and forces people to research the space techs. This rewards the good players who know how to manipulate their cities best, and does nothing to rewrd the people who know less and play for fun and are the best DIPLO players, not the best CIV players.)

[MMC]

Space victory does not force people to research the space techs. However, disabling it disables some of the wonders and a couple of other features.

[Rasputin]

how do you reach space with no one researching the space techs.

[MMC]

OK... if someone wants to try and win with a space victory, then they will research the space techs. However, if you disable the space victory, you force them to research something else.

[Prussia]

see this post, Ras.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4560428#post4560428

You have to chill out, my friend. You have made your point clear that you don't have as much confidence with the gaming aspect of diplogames, and we are aware that you express concern in that sense.

I agree with you that the best diploers should be rewarded, but you have to consider the gaming part of the diplogames.

I think the best role-player should win in a seperate category, and in the end, we can have a vote as to which was the bigger victory (depending on the victory type and the role-player. For example, a space race would not be as good as a domination victory.)

[Prussia]

Let me take it one step further, in the faq it says that diplogaming revolves around politics, therefore I suggest that the diplo winner should have more win-power than the in-game winner (Unless it's a conquering win, then that's quite a feat.)

[Rasputin]

that has been my whole point all along prussia. Th DIPLO FAQ describes a diplo game, yet people have turned their back on that style and jsut using it as part of the whole game. It was not meant tobe that way, DIPLO was meant to be a whole change in how game was played. it meant you didnt have t obe a great civ player to play nad enjoy yourself.

Seems that we have changed the STYLE to fit a need to garner more players.

DIPLO is not for the the normal MP player, especially anyone who is after showing of their skills as a civ player.

But fine play the game the way you want, but please dont try and tell people it is a DIPLO style,

[Robert]

Originally posted by LzPrst
as for anything done that you want to keep a secret until the book-keeping tally at the end (we will likely be keeping score each session to avoid confusion later) just take a screenshot when it says "You have been the first to invent Liberalism" and send it to the book-keepers after the game (or when it is no longer important). If you forget to do it when the message first appears, open the chat box log and look in events, then printscreen the message from there. if you totally forget, pray that the book-keepers are well informed about your civ...

fair enough.

Rasputin: and does nothing to rewrd the people who know less and play for fun and are the best DIPLO players, not the best CIV players.)

winning a space race needs all your in-gameplay capacities AND your diplo capacities. You need allies to win the space race and you need to be able to avoid being invaded by all other nations before you finish your spaceship.

Besides that, we never said that the in-game winner was the real winner. He just gets some bonus points and it's the natural end of the game.

[Robert]

Rasputin is an extreme fundamentalistic diplo player
Raspuitin, don't worry, things'll be fine. We just don't want the GAME to be ruined by the PURE DIPLOMACY STYLE you prefer.

Just read through the HOTW5 logs to see that the DIPLOMACY always got the focus there but we didn't let it ruin the GAME. removing the space race from civ is removing it's heart.

[LzPrst]

I agree with Ras, focus should be on diplo, but I also think that Space race is an important part of the game and requires great skills in diploing. it is not mutually exclusive with diploing.

As the first to finish the space race now only awards a few extra points and not a complete victory it is of far less importance than before and is therefore great to include in the game. It requires many skills including diplomacy. Also, we are playing a Civ4 Diplomacy Game, not Diplomacy, we should not remove important aspects of the game, and Space race is just that. It is also a very nice finish (if it doesnt award complete and instant victory).

[Rasputin]

i see some light at the end of the tunell

Include the Space race, but dont end game there. continue.

it is not a end jsut because some rich country (allaince) escaped the world.

[OzzyKP]

I like Lz's suggestions about 1 point per wonder too. It certainly makes more sense than just giving out points for who has the most. My only hesitatation though is that there are A LOT of wonders. So a good chunk of the total points awarded would be from wonders. I might need to rebalance my point structure if we did that.

For example, currently founding a religion gives 2 points. So getting 1 out of 7 religions gets you 2 points compared to getting 1 out of 30 (or thereabouts) wonders getting you 1 point.

If building a wonder is 1 point, then founding a religion should be 4 points. And then I'd have to change other stuff too no doubt.


As for playing after the spaceship launch.... I added that because Frank & Capo really wanted it in. Personally I agree that we should just stop with the first launch, as we ended up doing with HOTWV. But I can go either way on this. Whatever the majority wants.

[Robert]

Well, the game has to end somewhere. I think a solid point to end the game is best.

[LzPrst]

0.5 points per wonder...?