History of the World 8 - Organisation Thread (Pt3)

[Glohithia]

It all started with the Mali invasion of Coventry, which was very illegal at that moment.

Illegal? Please explain as I am curious as to what you are thinking here. And please don’t think Im being confrontational, I am genuinely curious as to your thoughts on this as I think this is the hardest thing to “define” about a Diplo style game.

Ill give you my take on it too, just so we can compare notes, so to speak

I like the game to regulate itself, so if anybody had a problem with a certain action they could gather up support and do something about it. If that happens enough, that very reaction is the deterrent. I like to play this type of game with the same set of goals or objectives as any other CIV game. Specifically, if somebody goes out of their way to plop a wonder down on a contested border to eat away at the land I control, I reserve the right to fight that action. Just as I would in any other game. In my mind, a Diplo is no different from other types of games in this regard. It is still, at its core, CIV. The difference to me is that in a normal game I would push my advantage to the end and in a Diplo I would severely limit my conquest. And, of course, the idea that others would band against me to curtail my actions is also encouraged (all the while serving the core purpose of putting yourself or an ally ahead).

I think another good example of this was America vs Carthage last session. America ran wild and took more than he should have (that judgment is based on the popular reaction against America by others) and ended up getting around 4 powerful nations to come together against him in support of Carthage. To me that is the perfect example of self regulation.

Of course, last session we had so much banding togather and unbanding that I got totally and completely lost. But that was also the most fun I have had in any session so far and I didn’t even really do anything

[Toni]

By the way, if someone earlier have told me that i would support a civ from the other alliance with 30% of my military i would just laughed at him!

But it happened hehe

[OzzyKP]

I grudgingly agree with Mike.

My only complaint would involve whether he gave appropriate fore shadowing in the thread and elsewhere. But then again I haven't been keeping up with the thread so if he posted there I probably would have missed it anyway.

I should (either myself or with my allies) be able to tend to my own defense and not rely on rules to bail me out of a jam. Of course I have been hindered by poor land, some early wars, and allies who have been similarly hindered. With all those constraints I should just admit that I am, and will continue to be a runt civ who must always cave in to every demand made of me by my superiors, and perhaps accept vassalage like a few other civs did this session. Though that would probably just lead to more demands and not help all that much.

But I am too prideful (like most of us) to admit my long term frailty and continue to do what I can whilst overstretching my resources and defenses. True neutrality is impossible to sustain in a game like this.

Of course what is ironic is the big role reversal for me from the last game to this one. From the powerful to the powerless. It is truly humbling. The drive to compete is what drives most of us regardless of diplo rules. I do think I was right then that with our new victory conditions it is entirely possible, and desireable for someone to win the game while being a runt civ like mine. Being a crafty diplomat, writing a rich story line, finding a niche to exploit, etc.

But whether from pride, my very busy RL schedule, or some in game limitations, this didn't happen. I am still in the mindset of being bigger and better and competing with Germany-Mali and trying to knock them down somehow. At this point it quite simply seems to be impossible.

So maybe I should have tried to negotiate a deal for techs or protection in exchange for that engineer instead of trying to build a wonder to stop Coventry from being eaten away by Mali & Egyptian culture. Maybe I should have just given up the idea of founding cities in the new world at all when they'd just be easy for the military powers to dismantle whenever they choose.

It is certainly hard to accept you are weak and powerless in the game and plan accordingly.

[Robert]

@Mike: I was speaking 'in context' about Coventry
Your action wasn't illegal OOC, but at that moment the Inca considered it to be illegal.

@Toni: I'm glad that you still know who belongs to the 'other' alliance, and who belongs to 'yours'. As far as I know is 'our' alliance scattered. I only consider the English and my vassal, America, to be my real allies. And America only because I vassalaged them

[Toni]

My real allies are my panzers brigades

[Robert]

Originally posted by Toni
My real allies are my panzers brigades

My real allies are my people

[Glohithia]

@Mike: I was speaking 'in context' about Coventry

Doh! You mean I wrote all that for nothing?

Seriously, I was 50/50 on whether or not your comment was in game or not, but my question still seemed like a good one to ask. You, Ozzy, Kuno, and a few others have really been the driving force behind this genre, going back to the Civ 2 MP days. I respect your input, thats why I asked.

And I think Ozzy's post was quite nice. Maybe the real problem here is that there is not a counter balance to the Germany/Mali/Korean/Egytian alliance, hence no deterent. Maybe this alliance should be wedged apart??

[Toni]

Maybe this alliance should be wedged apart??

haha a more bloody session coming up

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Glohithia
And I think Ozzy's post was quite nice. Maybe the real problem here is that there is not a counter balance to the Germany/Mali/Korean/Egytian alliance, hence no deterent. Maybe this alliance should be wedged apart??

Sounds good to me.

[Robert]

Honestly, that's what Ozzy and me tried to accomplish all the time
But we got everybody declaring war on everybody, except you guys

But you guys should've learn from 'our' alliance, how we broke it up several times. That's much more fun!

[Toni]

Hmmm it is also much fun to be the most powerful and do what you like

[Robert]

Yes, but it won't be that fun anymore when at the beginning of HOTW10 there's suddenly no slot left over for Toni

j/k

Regarding the vassalage/declaring war thing, I know what I should've done. I should've declared war on America first, and then America should've capitulated. Then all you guys would've made peace with America

[Toni]

HOTW10 there's suddenly no slot left over for Toni

Speaking of HOTW 10 CS wona help me organize the thread, so we can start on the roster? Sep isn't so far away! And should we come up with a different name or stick to the HOTW10?

[Beta]

HOTW10

Great name. Count me in. Please.

[Beta]

Originally posted by Toni


haha a more bloody session coming up

Oh cripes. Who is going to declare war on me this week.