History of the World 8 - Organisation Thread (Pt2)

[Glohithia]

Do the people who play this game base their decisions on how their nations would act objectively to the facts? Or are there "good ol' boy" unspoken alliances from the get go?

Haha, such a good question. But who can answer that without knowing the mind of others? Ill admit desperately wanting to know that very thing last game too. Id say it is a combination of the two. Consider this, it is much easier to trust (or not trust) people you have played with as you will have formed opinions based on their previous actions. If you think of that as "good old boy" stuff, then there is probably some of that. But not, I think, in the overtly unfair way you are hinting at.

I cant answer the rest of your concerns. Im not involved in any of this. As far as 3-4 nations threateneing you, maybe that is all from the "Levi Effect"? Try talking to some of them and see if you cant neutralize them thru diplomacy... Thats all I have, I cant say anything else. I just hope you play and have fun. I know I do!

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Pinchak
1. Levi pillaged roads in neutral territory.

Levi pillaged English roads. In English territory. That it wasn't within a city cultural border is purely a technicality of game mechanics. In the real world if pirates attack US ships in neutral waters the US don't shrug and go "oh, it wasn't in our territory". No the US starts the Barbary War.

It is just a stupid game mechanic that you can destroy my roads and not technically trigger war but I can't do anything to defend myself without triggering it. Destroying roads in "neutral territory" is not an innocent act. It is an act of war pure and simple. English workers made that road and it connected English cities. That was an English road no different than roads in our borders. We will defend our roads and our people.

Originally posted by Pinchak
2. Ozzy drops city right next to Levi's capital, dispite the fact that there was other undisputed city sites free.

A. That city is much closer to my capitol than your capitol.
B. We are squeezed in tight so we have to make do.
C. Levi refused to negotiate borders with me despite several requests.
D. The Zulu have MUUUUUUCH better land and MUUUUCH more land than England does. So dont' fricken whine about it.

Originally posted by Pinchak
3. Ozzy initiates actual war.

Again, a mere technicality. The US declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbor. Do you blame the US then for starting that war? That Levi attacked me without declaring war or announcing his intentions is a strike against him, not against me for attempting to defend myself.

Originally posted by Pinchak
4. World comes down on Zulus for wanting to finish it.

Cause the Zulus are the CLEAR transgressors here. Face it, Levi is the bad guy. Not only because of the facts in the game that I have just addressed, but as Mike made clear he started this whole thing after he announced his intention to quit the game and was only doing it to try and cripple me because of sour grapes. It was very immature and personal.

[Pinchak]

Ok, at this point I'm beating a dead horse.

My apoligies for escalating what is already a tender subject.

While I do not at ALL agree with Levi's motivation behind creating conflict, I can't say that I (without any personal vendetta toward you) would have done different.

You ignored the standard stepping stone city placement model in favor of a sprawling land grab. The game mechanic that you write off as stupid is actually in place to give importance to culture. Had you built in a more practical manner you wouldn't have to worry about your roads (in as far as you know is considered Zulu land by the Zulu) being pillaged.

As far as me "whining" about the quality of my land, keep in mind I mentioned this only once, and as a direct quote from Levi. After looking at the save I don't think the land is that bad at all, besides the lack of copper, iron, or horses.

I'm going to drop the entire subject now. Just keep in mind that I as a player had nothing to do with the past actions of the Zulu in this game. Lets start with a clean slate and have fun.

[Robert]

Pinchak, my advise to you is to not wage war. That's based on in-game reasons. You are totally free to start a full blown war on Ozzy! But since Ozzy already made allies and Levi didn't, you're allone in-game.
I'd advise you to get your civ on the road first, and get some allies.

It's not about OOC reasons that we do or do not support Ozzy. It's about In Game reasons, and my reasons may not be neutral at all, since I'm an allie of Ozzy. (He adopted Hinduism! The religion I founded)

As a matter of fact, there are a million OOC reasons that want me to see Ozzy's butt kicked

[Robert]

I suggest we bring this to the story thread.
In fact it's all very interesting diplomacy!
Pinchak, as with all diplomacy and opinions, it is possible that others don't see your truth
That's part of the fun.

I kinda agree with you that the Inca have a better reason to help the English then the German. But from Germans point of view it's interesting to make friends. If you would know Toni's style of playing then you know that peace and friendship is his key. He helped me, in example, against the Barbarians. That was a clever move from him since I truely cannot move against him for a long time! Germany made Inca and Germany become friends, and I'm actually thankful for that since without Germany the Incan civilization would have dropped back into the stone age!

But let's bring this to the Story Thread! That's much more fun and more interesting!
You're ABSOLUTELY free to do with your civ what you want to do. If you want to wage war and feel that that's the best for your civ now, do it. There's a PERFECT storyline for that, it's not coming out of the blue. Nobody will hate you Out-Game for that, most people would even love it, since war is fun

Just make sure that you don't ruin the game experience from others by minimising their civilization. You can take cities, destroy improvements, but just don't go too far. Always imagine for yourself: "Would this game still be fun for me if I would be in his shoes".

Having said that, be prepared for in-game (and maybe totally illogic) reactions from other civs.

[Robert]

Story Thread

[Toni]

Seeing how many times Germany was mentioned above, I found it necessary to have some input. Pinchak about the conflict you got there with the English, seeing that it is been worked and there will be peace Germany will not get involved. The only reason some chariots were coming was to aid the English, sucks to see a quitter like Levi ruin the game for him. Great to have you on board, enjoy the game I have no allies, i just felt bad about Ozzy! Totally OOC LOL

[Toni]

For the record i don't like Ozzy

[deity]

Originally posted by Glohithia
If you think of that as "good old boy" stuff, then there is probably some of that. But not, I think, in the overtly unfair way you are hinting at.

Toni and I are a good combo and would be way powerful in any game as allies. It's for this reasopn I balk at allying with Germans in this game but deep down it would really suit me.

[Robert]

Let's vote for Deity for the Poly Hall of fame HERE
(You have to vote for 3 apolytoners. Last election we got Ozzy in the hall! (and diplogaming with him) Great work Ozzy!)

@Deity: did you figure out your gametime for next session? (you didn't read my PM) (put on notification )

[OzzyKP]

Has anyone noticed that after 50 posts we have more views than the old thread did after 500?

[Robert]

That's because the 1st thread is always more active.
Unfortunately much players stop being active during the game

But I hope and believe that this game will be different then HOTW7, since HOTW7 had much personal problems.

[Robert]

Wait, you mean that the 2nd thread has more views then the 1st thread. I thought you meant compared to the last HOTW7 thread

That's most probably because this thread is a split-off of the last thread, so I could include the last 10 or something posts from the old threads
Apparantly it transfers the views as well

[Toni]

Ok I hope that everyone is clear about tomorrows game start. All the US players will start at the usual game time 6:30pm est. Only Cs, Kuno and deity need to come 1hr earlier (is that correct Cs?)

[Toni]

Also Pinchak pls give us your contact info, we all meet before game time on one of the following chats softs (yim or aim)

tx