The HOTW VII - Setup Thread III - The Trilogy

[Colonel_Treize]

Hear Hear! Deity is indeed an excellent diploplayer. Admitting his mistake has got to be worth some leniency.

I also DISAGREE with Alphabet for all next session. It's a backlash to everyone who researched Alpha, including Cyber and myself. If we do that, we might as well do away with TTORaCT altogether.

@Cyber: As I pointed out time and time again, I did bring up my first session issue before the first session as well, and my second proposal was NOT a rule change, either. Indeed, we don't have to vote on this. In the words of Marge Simpson, "Why can't we simply decide that everyone won and had a good time?" The truth is, there are some things that must be voted on after the game has begun or not. Period. You can't be two ways about it. Thx for your acknowledgement about my hosting.

All in all, I'm very pleased with the story thread. It seems that despite voting against me, everyone did their best to do what I suggested. Speaking of which, I shall post my own novel soon enough. I've been spending all of my free time diploing, as some of you know.

@Cyber: Read the previous posts more carefully. I have NOT gotten my owed techs for Alpha yet. If you must know, Deity was supposed research Metal Casting and trade it to me when he did. But since he traded Alpha for Metal, he cannot do that. This is the ONLY way I figure into this discussion.

Cyber, as for Krishnianity, we all know it should be called Christianity, right? You can't call me French and France in chat, then ask me to call your Religion something different. Besides, you can't change the Religion's name in the game.

[deity]

OK, looks like this is the solution:

I'm on a tech that will take well over 50 turns to complete. I must gift it to CT as it's part of the deal and balances things up for him regarding Alphabet. I will not trade it to anyone else though; AND this is in addition to a previous tech that I won't trade either.

But we don't share Alpha around.

I can't be penalised 40 turns because that impacts on CT who still hasn't received his Alpha tech from me.

AND Frank can't be penalised cos I screwed up.

[deity]

Plus I will maintain an approach of gifting older techs if I can can (eg Bulgaria and China)

[Robert]

I'm fine with Deity's last proposed solution. But perhaps, if CT only traded Alphabet once then we can assume a CT-Frank aphabet trade. And if Frank only traded MC once he can trade it for something else to Deity. In that case Deity only has to give on tech to Frank.

And once again, I'm not looking for a punishment, I'm looking for a way to make the game fair again. Thus: how do we make the game like the mistake didn't happen.

But Frank, with whom would you have traded Alphabet? I think you think too easy about this. Not to mention that I wonder who already got alphabet researched besides CT and me. I don't want to start an argument on this but I think that you think too easy on this

[Robert]

Will MMC play next friday?

[LzPrst]

AT-TEN-SHUN!

There are no greater lies than statistics. However, come on guys. Focus. The Thailand vs USA debate does not belong here. As a mod you should know this ozzy. An offtopic thread would be most interesting, but the fact remains this is the diplogame setup thread. Lets focus on that.

Speaking of which. Frank, calling people poor players and accusing them of whatever isnt very polite. Regardless, concerning the bad tech trade, the only really fair thing to do would have been to reload at the time, and we all agree that is too late now. (though if we want to throw stones frank, you benefited from the deal and iirc didnt want to reload, conclusions could be drawn here, but throwing accusations is in no way constructive) We should all take selfcritiscism for not agreeing to reload when it happened. Deity shouted out that a mistake had been made, the obvious solution would be to reload, that would have solved this entire issue. Yet we didnt. People can have had many different motives for this, but mine, and I assume this goes for most players, was that I didnt want to "rock the boat", that is, risk having to sit for 2 hours trying to reconnect losing game time. I also didnt realize the magnitude of the error, I'm still not 100% clear on what happened. We should have reloaded, but should have is no good. We need to focus on a solution on what to do now.

Deity's solution seems the best. Lets just get on with the game, if anyone makes a mistake in the future, we will reload. Deity deserves a "bad boy" for messing up, he also deserves a "good boy" for admitting it, as an honorbound diploplayer should, and we all deserve a big whipping for not reloading.

Now, there are still some folks who havent posted in the story thread, and frankly where is MMC!? Is he not playing friday? Then I need to contact his sub. The situation where people leave without having declared subs aforehand is bad. It completely removes any chance of diploing during the week.

Also, we need to clarify stuff up about subs. The following understanding must be made with every sub.
A. They must understand the concept of diplo and play within its boundaries.
B. The player needing a sub and the sub must work out who is going to responsible for diploing and story posting before and after the session

The sub should post at least one story post, just as a summary, and more if a sub rules a civ for more than one session. And the original player should post one thread declaring when he is available for diplo again.

As it is now, I have unanswered diploing with MMC, I dont know if he will be back in time for the session, I dont know who is going to sub for him, and I dont know how to contact the sub before the game if it turns out to be the same as last.

We really need to crank the whole sub thing up a bit. Subbing for a diplogame is not laddergaming for a few hours and then done with it.

People who have posted:
KunojiLym
Frank
LzPrst
Cybershy
(Toni...)

That leaves:
Omnipotent trout
Ozzy...
Nolan
CT
Ryk, or Carthage, whoever plays them these days
Rome, whoever plays them these days?
MMC\Conquistador45, or whoever plays England these days
Deity

Majority of players have yet to post and its 2 days until gametime. Come on people.

[Robert]

In short:

Deity traded Alphabet for Metal Casting to Frank
He shouldn't have done it, CT should have traded Alphabet for Metal Casting to Frank (he had 1 trade left for that tech)

Thus:
- Deity has Metal Casting but shouldn't have it
- CT should have metal casting

Solution:
* Frank / Deity gives Metal Casting to CT
* Deity can't develop for 40 turns (the time he most probably need anyway for getting MC)

Another possibility is of course that another player who can trade MC will give it to Deity in exchange for another good tech.

[Robert]

Hey, CT, we're getting into some kind of a Father - Teenager child relation with all those debates about nothing

You can call Krishnianity 'Christianity' in your local dialect if you want to. (that's what I already wrote in my original story-post :P did you read it :P).
If you keep in mind that it's a branche of Hinduism, not a branch of Judaism.

I've changed the religion, not the name of the religion. Like I changed the history of India but didn't change the name of India.

And that's the purpose of this game: make your own history by using real-history names. You can use your Sci-Fi story, we never told you to stop it, remember
I think it's more fun to have an alternate history then a phantasy history.

But once again, that's only a personal opinion and I may very well be wrong.

[Robert]

I've sent a PM to MMC.
He is around on poly all the time, posting in other threads. Maybe he just decided to back out of this game. (don't hope so)

[Robert]

No response to my PM Ozzy?

[deity]

Not too keen on Cybers solution. Firstly I already haven't traded a new tech that potentially could earm two techs in trade deals - only a few Civs had this tech at the time. This was the originally agreed punishment.

I suggested another tech be likewise restricted except for the gifting to CT.

I don't think we should flatten the game dynamics by halting my research and gifting gold around which sort of trebles my punishment..

And will slow down the game too.

Cyber are you OK with my posted solution?

[Robert]

Sure.
I just thought that it would make it easier but if you have already done some stuff then that's ok with me.
I'm so flex 8)

[Colonel_Treize]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Hey, CT, we're getting into some kind of a Father - Teenager child relation with all those debates about nothing

You can call Krishnianity 'Christianity' in your local dialect if you want to. (that's what I already wrote in my original story-post :P did you read it :P).
If you keep in mind that it's a branche of Hinduism, not a branch of Judaism.

I've changed the religion, not the name of the religion. Like I changed the history of India but didn't change the name of India.

Fine. I see us as equals, but if you participate in a debate, then you must believe that it has meaning, in order to give it so much personal attention. I will continue to let you know when I think you are being logically inconsistent with yourself. I would be doing you and I a disservice if I did not. It doesn't have to be a debate if you take the constructive criticism for what it is.

As for Krishnianity, I think it's a very creative idea and I like it. I'm simply asking you, as well as others here, to collaborate with me more in their references to my stuff in the story thread, just like you would like us to do for you. That's all.

Btw, I'm working with MMC on my story. I shall post one story per week, for every week I did not post, as required, albiet a bit late.

[Robert]

What I said was not because of not equal positions but about arguing about everything all the time
Could've used "Looks like we're married" as well :P

I hope you've read my explanations and saw that I was not inconsistent in both issues you raised

As for MMC, you are in contact with him? Will he post in the threads soon? Will he play friday?

[Frank Johnson]

Cyber, as I mentioned before I had to wait for other allies to research alphabet alone so I could conduct my 2nd trade of metal casting. Granted, it would have moved the trade a few turns into the future, but that's it, at which point I could have traded MC a 2nd time for anything I thought was interesting. The net effect on me was, I had alpha about 10 turns earlier than I would have otherwise. Since I then had to wait for others to pick up alpha anyway, it wasn't a benefit I could make use of. The only real conclusion we can draw is that some other random person besides deity would have MC and he wouldn't.

If you can get that much you'd understand how suggesting I become a money box for other players for 50 turns is downright insulting. (As we say in Texas, "Thems fightin' words." So its either ignorance of the real situation (which I hope), or an assault.