Announcement

**deity** · September 25, 2006, 21:41

boo hoo

OK, here's a solution if you don't want to reload 40 turns ago.

I'm on a tech that will take well over 50 turns to complete. I must gift it to CT as it's part of the deal and balances things up for him regarding Alphabet. I will not trade it to anyone else though; AND this is in addition to a previous tech that I won't trade either.

ALL civs receive Alphabet immediately at start of next session.

How's this sound?

I already gifted a few techs to civs that are behind in techs (China and Bulgharia). These were old techs of mine and not traded twice.

Once again I apolagise for all this mess. I'm furious with myself... and certain other parties here...

**OzzyKP** · September 25, 2006, 22:06

Sounds fair to me.

btw, I didn't mean to be a dick if I came off that way I'm sorry.

**Frank Johnson** · September 25, 2006, 22:10

I don't know about that. Sounds like CT has already benefited alot from his 2 trades of alpha. Actually I didn't persue that option earlier since I assumed he had already traded it away at great profit to himself.

Handing my tech over to CT isn't going to fix things. Declaring alphabet to be a tech that anyone can trade (except deity) might.

**Toni** · September 25, 2006, 22:36

Just to clear my books, I was gifted by deity sailing last session.

**Colonel_Treize** · September 25, 2006, 23:56

@Cyber: Thx, for wishing me well. I'll be back! But, I find it inconsistent that you said you would vote against any proposal called to a vote after the game begins, then vote yes on the score/voting plan.

@Ozzy: I abstain on the scoring plan. I'll leave that minor detail in your capable hands.

btw, There's no irony in Deity's actions. He was probably against all Tech Trading precisely because something like this would happen, and he knew he couldn't handle it. I believe the illegal trade was an honest mistake on his part, and you should as well.

@LzPrst: As I said, I already apologized for conquistador45. I have spoken to him and if he subs again, that will not happen a second time. That goes for any sub I invite. Please don't be hard on MMC for conqui's actions. Instead of a diplomat, Conquistador is a Great General, in his own right.

@Frank: You have no idea if I have benefited highly from my Alpha tech deals. You didn't ask me for Alpha because our Civs still haven't met yet. Besides, your opinion about whether or not to reload is invalid, since you stand to gain as things are now. My opinion is also invalid, as I stand to gain by reloading. You shouldn't have said during the session to not reload.

We cannot deny a player who has broken TTORaCT the ability to GIVE techs that he owes for a previous deal. I won't discuss a tech deal publicly, but it wouldn't be fair to me. I didn't break the rules, and I shouldn't be punished, here. Moreover, Cyber said we shouldn't vote on rules after the game has begun. Don't dissapoint me by perpetuating a double standard twice, Cyber. I feel there should be no punishment to Deity, as he didn't mean it, I need the tech he owes me to make things straight between us, and it's not like we are really competing here anyway.

I also have to add that we are spoiling the fun of the game by publicly revealing every tech trade we made in order to satisfy everyone's vanity.

I am confirming for Friday, as your immodest host.

Cyber just likes spelling out T-O-R-a-C-T-T, I think.

**deity** · September 26, 2006, 01:52

Originally posted by Frank Johnson
I don't know about that. Sounds like CT has already benefited alot from his 2 trades of alpha. Actually I didn't persue that option earlier since I assumed he had already traded it away at great profit to himself.

Handing my tech over to CT isn't going to fix things. Declaring alphabet to be a tech that anyone can trade (except deity) might.

I'm not giving him metal casting - he has to learn that now. I'm giving him the next one that will take 60+ turns.

**deity** · September 26, 2006, 01:56

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Sounds fair to me.

btw, I didn't mean to be a dick if I came off that way I'm sorry.

No problem maestro... I'm just feeling really bad and sensitive about this...

**deity** · September 26, 2006, 01:59

Originally posted by Frank Johnson
I don't know about that. Sounds like CT has already benefited alot from his 2 trades of alpha. Actually I didn't persue that option earlier since I assumed he had already traded it away at great profit to himself.

Handing my tech over to CT isn't going to fix things. Declaring alphabet to be a tech that anyone can trade (except deity) might.

The other thing to note is that CT has not yet received his tech for Alpha. It was to be Metal Casting when I got it but now it can be that next tech I get.

**Frank Johnson** · September 26, 2006, 02:02

You guys handle it anyway you want, but it using leap logic to automaticly assume CT would be the benefitiary of my tech trade for alphabet, unless something else is going on I'm not aware of, which is likely at this point. I had to wait for someone else to discovery alphabet (since I couldn't trade it) to conduct my 2nd trade of metal casting, so it really could have been anyone else.

**LzPrst** · September 26, 2006, 09:39

I used CT as an illustration, since he was the one who gave it to Deity he should have had the option of trading it away again, and for all I knew that might very well have been you.

Deity and CT should just work this out. lets not make a big fuss and just learn from this as a reminder to stay sharp and not mess up.

as for Conquistador45, there was nothing wrong with his gaming, only his lack of... well, diplomacy. Now a general of course doesnt do diplomacy so if it was a conscious choice to play a sneak attacking warmonger than that is of course acceptable, BUT, it should have been declared somehow. A claim to the city in question. a threat, a demand, a warning, anything. A civ turning from Happy Funglia --> British Colonial Empire without warning is... well... you all get the point, and I assume so has Conquistador45, and hopefully MMC. What I'm really asking for is some kind of explanation for what happened and what is to happen next IN THE STORY THREAD, so that we can react and respond and DIPLO about it. Hurry up people, friday will be here before you know it.

**Robert** · September 26, 2006, 17:46

Frank: Toni... :P First off, someone was gonna trade me alpha for metal casting. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Perhaps..... but it might have token another 60 turns.
Btw, I wouldn't be that sure that someone would trade alpha with you for a huge tech. I do not trade techs to gain much but technology trading is a part of alliance forming for me, since I can only trade them twice. So I'd rather have my allies have the big jump forwards then some other far away possible enemy.

Ozzy: I find this especially ironic considering Deity was the one who wanted to ban all tech trading - yet he was the one who couldn't respect the rule we did have.

It is ironic, but once again, we're all humans and we do all make mistakes. When I discovered alphabet I traded a lot of techs without thinking as well. (not the alphabet tech, but some others). Fortunately nothing happened that shouldn't have happened. (I double checked it)

Deity made a mistake and I concider him to be a great diploplayer for admitting the mistake. Maybe we should have reloaded but it's too late for that now. Let's do that from now on.

If someone gets a tech that he shouldn't have gotten there shouldn't be a punishment (we all make mistakes) but morely something to make it fair again. But I assume that it won't happen anymore, we all have learned from this mistake and if we report it in time we can reload.

I hope we won't blame deity too much, he made a mistake and proved that he's human. And he proved that he's a very honest man by admitting his mistake.

Deity: ALL civs receive Alphabet immediately at start of next session.

Sorry, I VERY disagree with this.
I've researched Alphabet for 65 turns, if all civs get it for free next turn that's a HUGE backlash to me. The error has been made, I like the make-up solution Deity made. And I think Frank shouldn't trade techs for another 20 turns or something, that'll do it.

Deity: Once again I apolagise for all this mess.

Don't be too sorry, once again I only respect you for admitting it. We all make mistakes.

Colonel: But, I find it inconsistent that you said you would vote against any proposal called to a vote after the game begins, then vote yes on the score/voting plan.

The discussion about the score system already started before the game started and is something we agreed on before the game started already that we should come with a final plan. I think we should settle it now though, we're too late already in fact. But it seems like we're having an agreement more or less.

Colonel: We cannot deny a player who has broken TTORaCT the ability to GIVE techs that he owes for a previous deal. I won't discuss a tech deal publicly, but it wouldn't be fair to me. I didn't break the rules, and I shouldn't be punished, here. Moreover, Cyber said we shouldn't vote on rules after the game has begun. Don't dissapoint me by perpetuating a double standard twice, Cyber. I feel there should be no punishment to Deity, as he didn't mean it, I need the tech he owes me to make things straight between us, and it's not like we are really competing here anyway.

We shouldn't punish anybody but just make sure that things are fair. If somebody got something he shouldn't have had it should be made alright again more or less.
If we learn that somebody traded three times or traded something he didn't research but did NOT ADMIT IT publicly we should come with punishments though.

A fair punishment in those situation can even be handled in-game by all not trading with such a civ for 200 turns or something.

And Colonel: we're not making new rules here, we're deciding what to do if ALREADY MADE rules were broken :P
And the other thing wasn't a new rule creation either :P
I didn't dissapoint you for that reason :P

And you were a good host last session (again) :P (forgot to tell you that)

Cyber just likes spelling out T-O-R-a-C-T-T, I think.

Yup

It can't be repeated enough! We all most dream about it during the night

TORaCTT (notice the non-capital a!)

The other thing to note is that CT has not yet received his tech for Alpha. It was to be Metal Casting when I got it but now it can be that next tech I get.

I don't think that CT should get a tech.
He already got his techs for his twice trading alphabet. Giving him metal-casting as well only kills the ballance even more.

Maybe the best is that both you and Frank stop researching for about 40 turns and spread the money you earn with it later over all civs

(40 turns is what most probably takes you to get metal-casting / alphabet, most probably it'll be 50+ but we shouldn't get too hars on you guys)

Wow, I was away for the weekend, did I answer everybody now?

ALL NATIONS THAT GAIN CHRISTIANITY IN ONE OR MORE CITIES: BE AWARE THAT IT'S NOT CHRISTIANITY BUT KRISHNIANITY!!!! READ MY STORY POSTS ABOUT THIS IN THE STORY THREAD! KRISHNIANITY IS A BRANCH OF HINDUISM AND NOT A BRANCH OF JUDAISM! KRISNIANITY IS IN NO WAY CONNECTED TO JUDAISM (OR ISLAM) (WELL, IT MIGHT GET CONNECTED TO ISLAM ). THE CENTRAL PERSON IN KRISHNIANITY IS KRISHNA!!!!!! SO IF YOU USE THE NO KRISHNIAN RELIGION IN YOUR STORY POSTS, DON'T LET IT BE CHRISTIANITY. NO STUFF WITH POPES AND APOSTLES, ETC. THANKS FOR THAT

had to share that with big huge capitals

**Toni** · September 26, 2006, 17:53

Maybe the best is that both you and Frank stop researching for about 40 turns and spread the money you earn with it later over all civs

If the rest agree on this i'm ok with it, only problem for me is that Frank should not get an equal penalty like deity. As frank said he could have traded it with somebody else.

**Frank Johnson** · September 26, 2006, 18:04

I didn't spend ANY time researching metal casting thank you very much. I simply won't accept any punishment because I maintain that I got my just trade potential out of a key I put honest effort in to get. The ONLY person to benefit from a mistake is deity. If you guys come up with something riduclous like don't research for 50 turns and give us your cash then don't expect this game to last long. If *I* had traded metal casting 3 times it would be a different story, BUT I DIDN'T. This is an obvious case of weak players going head hunting in the setup thread trying to use "democracy" outside of the game to make up for their own lack of skill in the game.

There's a few of you who are quite guilty of taking the diplomacy/gaminess out of the story thread and putting it into the setup thread. If you need to slant and campaign in the rules to get an advantage in the game, I suggest you quit.

**Toni** · September 26, 2006, 18:10

Seeing that ppl are getting really mad with this whole issue, lets compromise and just play on and leave the past behind us.

	Civilization	Leader	also known as	Former players
Nolan [PM]	Egypt	Ramses	condor233
Deity [PM]	Choson	Wang Kong
Levi_the_Oracle [PM]	Inca	Huayna Capac		Frank Johnson (Dangime)
KunojiLym [PM]	China	Qin Shi Huang
LzPrst [PM]	Vikings	Ragnar Lodbrok
Glohithia [PM]	England	Victoria		MMC
OmnipotentTrout [PM]	Celts	Brennus
OzzyKP [PM]	Arabs	Saladin
Rykoffe [PM]	Carthage	Hannibal	Thrak
Eliminated	Rome	Julius Ceasar		[AI]
Toni [PM]	Bulgaria (Persia)	Cyrus II
CyberShy [PM]	India	Ghandi
Conquistador45 [PM]	Kushrena	Napoleon Boneparte		Colonel_Treize

Announcement

The HOTW VII - Setup Thread III - The Trilogy

The HOTW VII - Setup Thread III - The Trilogy

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