HOTW7 Set up thread

[OzzyKP]

If civs start close enough to each other to see each other, or have an overlapping fat cross then I think that is grounds for a restart.

[LzPrst]

agreed. (though they might have all the room in the world on the opposite side...)

maybe we should get some neutral creature to look at the map and declare it sound\unsound?

[Robert]

Ozzy: any word on The Capo?

[LzPrst]

we want votes from Capo, Nolan, Prussia and MMC on the tropical \ low sea level situation. could these players please take a stand. (an informed one, read page 21 for the end of the debate)

[OzzyKP]

I imagine Capo would vote against jungle & low sea level since he usually shares Raz' views on balance issues. But I will try calling him today.

[Robert]

@Lz: not everyone has the same number of posts per page. Page 21 doesn't exist to me (I'm on 16 now)

@Ozzy: I mean: do you already know when The Capo will be back or when he can start playing?

[OzzyKP]

No

[Prussia]

Huge Y
Terra Y
Random Y
Balanced N
Low Sea levels Y
Tropical N

[Robert]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
No

If you call him, please ask him

[MMC]

Huge - Yes
Terra - Yes (although I'm looking into making a terra-like mapscript of my own)
Random - Definitely Yes
Balanced - No (although a strategic balance where everyone has access to wheat and stuff, but Iron and Copper, etc are harder to find... is definitely a good idea)
Low Sea levels - The default scripts aren't really affected much by this, so I'll vote yes.
Tropical - Don't care either way.

[Frank Johnson]

Lz: My concerns and stance on such issues are based on my observations in HOTW5. Basicly I observed what I'd call a "preservationist" attitude. At the end there were civilizations that were abandoned and even subs found them boring or unfun to play. In my opinion the game would have been better had a couple more civs gone the way of the French and Mongols. Some didn't because of smart leadership.

Aggression is in diplo games. Weither that aggression is embodied by a far flung settler setting up on someone else's resources in there sphere of influence, or with a rush of axemen the difference is only in the tools the player chooses to create/rectify the situation. I have no intention of using war as a tool to wipe out entire civilizations, unless that civilization has become so irrelivant (usually through neglect) that it has become a drag on the game to find a player to fill it. Regional wars that are limited in scope and serve the purpose of blostering one's own civ at the cost of another who has neglected the military aspect of the game is totally legitimate.

I am cruel but fair. I bring honesty in the game, which was sorely lacking in HOTW5, where many civs had less units than they would feild against cowed AIs.

But I am serious. Think about it. When you start in the tundra, or packed in, remember all the stuff you're saying about variance and toughing it out. I've seen it too many times that people are all to willing to say that in a thread but then wimp out when its time to play 20 sessions of "This is your boring ice civ." The best course of action is to choose a map where everyone gets a legitimate start and that's on tropical. If you want to make an emotional or sentimental choice on the matter that is fine. But I this thread is here and when the whining starts the quoting thoth start as well.

[LzPrst]

frank: good to hear that you have a sane opinion and dont just want to wage war

If I fall in the tundra I'm gonna re-read my asimov, I recommend them highly.
"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent."
Mayor Salvor Hardin.

seems we are nearing a conclusion on the matter though. tropical is out by the looks of it.

low sea level can still go either way, though I've kinda lost track on that the yes\no ratio.

[Robert]

I'll update the yes/no ratio tomorrow
And I Agree with Frank that a little more aggression is not a problem in diplo games. It can be solved in-game in character because I'm sure that powerfull civs won't let the small civ be destroyed easily. They'd rather save it and make it a puppet-state then that it's cities fall into the hands of enemies.

I was busy declaring war on Germany as well in the end. If the game would've lasted longer I would've whiped Germany from the old world. I have to say that Nico wasn't really active on the forums as well. That counts as well. If a player doesn't want to solve things diplomaticly (thus on the forums) then he shouldn't be surprised to have to solve it on the battlefield. That's diplomacy as well.

[OzzyKP]

Heck, I might even recommend we go high sea level. This test game had waaay too much open land and it was normal sea level with 13 civs. We'd never bump shoulders with this map.

[OzzyKP]

And since the mini-map may be hard to figure out, here are some more direct screen shots. This is me trying to get as many civs in the same screen.