The History of the World V . . . .

[deity]

Originally posted by The Capo
OOC - I agree with Ozzy here, I don't think this should be allowed and I think Prussia should have to delete both of those posts, especially considering Nico should be back this week.

AND especially since Nolan played the Inca!



Mind you Prussia looks like a good find for diplo so must encourage him.

[LzPrst]

ooc. errr. agree with ozzy, mentioning things that dont exist yet is... a little odd. a change should be considered as to that particular element. I'm a huge opponent of anachronisms.

however, if he wants to run a story thread let him. what manner of insanity is this? I'm sorry to say ozzy and capo, but your judgment in whether a post is suitable or not isnt really relevant. If Prussia wants to make a story thread that causes trouble, then that is his right. It might not be a good idea, but even so he is fully capable of making his own decisions and taking the consequences of them. If he causes trouble then that is trouble that Nico will have to sort out when he returns, all part of the beauty of diplo. Subs are given freedom to make decisions for the nation they take over. I've been popping in every now and then to check out what omni is doing and giving him a few hints and suggestions. I have however completely surrendered control over germany to his judgment. and imo that should be how subs should act. because they are in a way "another" government or ruler than the original player. of course the original player should be allowed to leave instructions, and if Nico has specifically said that he shouldnt do what he's done, then a rewrite might be considered. but if he hasnt, then the story stands. I cant see why it shouldnt?

[LzPrst]

anyway. the library here closes (opening hours 15-19, tuesdays only ) so I gotta go. good luck to all on friday, seems to be an exciting session in the making.

[The Capo]

OOC - Sorry, but this is beyond the realm of diplogaming. Liscense is given, but this is straight up disinformation. Did someone bomb China? Yes. Was it Russia? Probably. That's why the Chinese reacted that way. Let's try it on this... Did someone kidnap the daughter of the Incan president? No. Was it Russia? No, because it never happened. See how that works?

[Robert]

[OOC] The only problem with Prussia is that he didn't sub for Nico, Nolan did. And as far as wel know Nico will continue this friday. But I agree with LzPrst that players should be allowed to make up whatever they want. I'll just never allie with a liar, so in the end players like that might isolate themselves.

[KunojiLym]

Anastasia Romanov walked into the conference room; her fellow cabinet members were already waiting for her. As she seated herself at the head of the table, the murmering about the chamber quietened.

The heiress suppressed a sigh, and rapped the table lightly. "I call this Cabinet Meeting to order. Boris, please provide us with an update on the situation in the United Nations."

Foreign Minister Boris Yeltsin nodded, and stood up, tapping a stack of papers against the table. "China is ready to go ahead with her 'coalition of the willing' against the Soviet government. Secretary General Ghandi is deploring this move, and points out that there is a great deal of uncertainty over who is behind the latest attacks. As you know, the RSSR is currently paying a significant amount of tribute to China, per the terms of the UN sanctions."

"How likely do you think that China will go to war?" Anastasia drummed her fingers against her cheeks, as she propped up her chin against her hand.

"Almost a certainty, in my opinion."

"I disagree," Aleksandr Kolchak, Minister of Military Affairs, opinioned. "It is true that there is an awesome force arrayed along the China-Russia border. It is also true that China strongly suspects the RSSR of being responsible for the attacks on her industrial and civilian centres. However, I believe that there is a degree of uncertainty surrounding the origins of the attacks, and that is reflected in the international situation. Don't forget that China isn't the only nation that has been hit by terrorist acts."

Yeltsin smirked slightly. "And you think a little uncertainty will stop China?"

"Why not?" The other man spread his hands. "Now, I'm not saying that China won't attack. I'm just saying that it is not as sure a thing as you seem to think."

"Regardless," Anastasia sighed, "it seems that you both agree that it is likely that China will attack Russia."

The short silence that followed was enough to answer her query, and she forged ahead.

"I myself am certain that it is the Soviet authorities who are ultimatedly behind the attacks in China. However, I am also worried about the kind of revenge that China may seek upon Russia. Our motherland has suffered enough as it is. More Russians should not suffer for the sins of the Soviets."

The Prime Minister fell silent, and bowed her head. The rest of the Cabinet kept a respectful silence, as they waited for her to recompose herself. It was not the first time it had happened, after all.

"I will seek an audience with Lao Wai Mo," she said at length. "At the very least, I want to know if my concerns will be satisfied."

"And if not?" This was Rudolf Stravinsky, Minister of Domestic Affairs.

"...I don't know," Anastasia said softly. "But we have to be there to pick up the pieces. Let's move on to other matters. Rudolf?"

"Information from the RSSR is sparse and difficult to obtain... but you already knew that." Stravinsky allowed himself a wry smile. "There are rumors of labor camps being set up at various locations around Russia. According to a source, the authorities call them 're-education facilities'. Besides that, the 5-year projects seem to have mixed results. Certainly, living conditions seem better than what the case was 20 years ago. What is certain is that everyone is fearful of the KGB. Anyone can be an informant, it seems."

"The KGB," Anastasia sighed. "No surprise there."

[Rasputin]

Just a little bit of comment from an avid Diplo fan and one of ancient playing time.

If someone wants to lie in a post that is wha tdiplo is al labout. It is called propaganda. Other nations should not react OOC to the lies but in character. But first they must prove they are lies. Not just by knowing that it didnt happen, but there mst be investigations and other such stuff occur.

If at the end of some great posting discussions IC the lies are found then the world can make political statements re those lies.

It happens in real life so why not in a diplo game. Just ask any conspiratist about who is really behind all the terrorism and they will tell you that it is normally a Western Government agains ttheir own people.

The people who control the media control the information.

[The Capo]

Rasputin, I respect your candor so much, however I have to say you are so wrong it borders on the insane.

What "Prussia" did in this situation was to say that Russian assailants captured and murdered their President's daughter....

Firstly this is wrong on TWO accounts; the first is that he INVENTED a daughter to be captured/killed. The second is the Russian complicity.

We give GREAT liscence in making up stories, but they have to be based on actual events in some proper semblence. In this case the Incan player (Prussia in this situation), invented a scenario where RUSSIAN agents captured and killed his leader's daughter. This is wrong on two fronts; the first is that this NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED; I think we can all agree that this DID NOT occur, because it CAN NOT occur in Civilization. The second is because there are no explanatory game mechanics which allow this action.

Secondly; the Incan player assigned a nationality to terrosits that NEVER EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, this creates an environment where all players are allowed to MAKE UP their own story of events, even if there are NO EVENTS to susbstantiate them. This is a horrible avenue for diplogames to traverse.

Now, understand that I am NOT trying to stymie the creativity of our players, however, I don't think we can reconcile PRETEND stories with what happens in the game, it is firstly unfair to all players, but ALSO more importantly unfair to the game of Civilization; we should all play within the PARAMETERS of our game of choice.

That said, I appreciate Prussia's removal of his posts.

Thank you.

Peace.

[The Capo]

Ugh, we obviously need to dicuss Diplogames. Mainly because I think they are growing out of hand...

[Robert]

the first is that this NEVER ACTUALLY HAPPENED; I think we can all agree that this DID NOT occur, because it CAN NOT occur in Civilization.

Oh, it can happen. We've had marriages already and attempts to kidnap people. We've had world meetings, we've had almost started a tribinal on a person. We've had leaders die and new ones elected. That's all not possible in civilization, but it is in diplogames.

Any nation can come up with BS. The other nations will just not respect that nation and not believe it's BS. Why would someobody not be allowed to lie?

We're all making up stories anyway. All those stories you've written did not happen in civilization. Your royal family tree, your discussions, etc. etc.

Ugh, we obviously need to dicuss Diplogames. Mainly because I think they are growing out of hand...

Nah, I think nothing's going wrong. Prussia just had some beginners issues, which is no problem
And I think that everybody agrees on the above, except you :P

[Prussia]

If Nicoda doesn't mind it, I'd love to keep going with this, as I find the diplomacy part much more fun than the actual playing. I sincerely apologize that something like this had to happen, and if I'm allowed to continue, I think I will lie low for a little while before I get the jist of the diplomacy.

Once again, my sincere apologies.

[The Capo]

Cyber you're missing the point.

I don't know about YOU, but when I make a story in the story thread it is in order to explain what is going on in the game. The different leaders REPRESENT the playing style I am going to utilize, the "discussions" (your words) that my characters have are there to REPRESENT what I am thinking about in my head, the stories about riots or unrest are to REPRESENT the actual civil disorder in a city, or the parades to REPRESENT we love the king day.

Is any of this making sense to you?

This is not a role-playing game, this is a diplogame. You are allowed to write stories because it helps with the diplomacy part, the point of the game though, is NOT to make things up but to conduct diplomacy. My only point is that we are letting this get out of hand to a degree that it becomes difficult to distinguish an actual terrorist attack (in China, and apparently in America) from a fake story that not only has no bearing on any events in the game (Prussia's story) or is scientifically impossible in the game (Prussia's story). This isn't black and white the way you are presenting it, but more grey. When I make up a leader, such as Carlos V, that is nowhere similar to making up an entirely false story based on NOTHING to accuse a country of terrorism. Now you may say, well he can make false accusations. But in this sense he is not just making an accusation, he wrote a "story" about how the event unfolded, and how his first-daughter was killed. That is not an accusation, that is writing in as FACT.

Now, when Lz accused me of attacking his Frigate (which by the way never occured) that was merely an accusation, he didn't write a story about the boys on the ship who lost their lives in the attack, because it wouldn't be fair to me. Do you understand what I am trying to say? It is okay to accuse a state of something, but it is NOT okay to make a story about it, thus making it "true" in the terms of the game.

All I am saying is, remember what we're playing; Civilization IV...

[deity]

You guys do realise this is the story thread?

[deity]

Secret Report to PM Margaret Thatcher of England
From UN Secretary General, Brian Thatcher
July 7 1624

England elected as leader of UN
Despite our low key approach to this international peace-making body England has been elected as the UN SG. Having taking on this role I suggest we may as well use it to our advantage. After all peaceful aims will benefit England to the greatest extent. Our first decision, however, was to get rid of the ban on nuclear weapons production. I felt that this was a strange move but as you explained to me it is the best deterrent against attacks, particularly where terrorist nations appear to be in the ascendancy. The motion was passed and England may now quite freely build our secret Manhattan Project.

China believed to be on the verge of war with Russia
I must inform you that much information has been gleaned about the numerous terrorist attacks, including the one on Vandal. China has presented clear evidence that it is almost certain that Russia is the source of most, if not all of these terrorist attacks. However a few other possibilities need to be considered. Best data suggests that Spain is the only other nation capable of training spies and it is possible, due to our duplicitous history with Spain, that the attack on Vandal was indeed Spanish; but it is more likely a Russian spy, perhaps gifted to America for the Vandal attack.

Spies, NOT terrorists
Note that we and all nations of the world are using the terminology ‘terrorist’ interchangeably with ‘spy’. The structure of the Russian state is such that mass production of spies is a real possibility. Such would not be possible for terrorist organisations, even if sponsored by a backward state. We believe it is most likely that the entire Russian economy and system is dedicated to the production of spies and is disguising the spy attacks as stateless terrorist attacks; and utilising world confusion by even paying compensation to China for previous attacks that it does not admit to!

China communications waning
The Chinese administration is very upset about the spy attacks and is so mistrustful of the world yet convinced that Russia is the sponsor of the attacks. I believe they are correct of course but caution that their certain imminent invasion of Russia is a bigger threat to world security. The Chinese leadership has gone into paranoid war overdrive and are capable of a huge over reaction. As you suggested I messaged Lao that the English supported their position and that for each future spy attack ONE Russian city would fall. I believe such a motion would be passed by the majority of the world’s nations. But no nations would support China rolling over the whole of Russia – the resultant super power becoming an even bigger threat to world security than these spy attacks. However, the responses from China are scant and emotion is ruling their decision making.

You are wise to put England on a war footing and I see most regions are now producing military units.

Draft English proposal

1) All nations remain out of any Sino/Soviet conflict and NOT provide ANY support to either side
2) Call for all nations to support China’s right to take one Russian city for each FUTURE spy attack
3) Neutral troops to be stationed along the Spanish, Inca and Indian borders with Russia and China to attempt to police unit gifting
4) IF any future spy attacks are ever proven to be by a trouble-making third party and not of Russian origin THEN all nations will close all relations with such country (close borders, cancel trades) and discuss the possibility of taking over such country (to be evenly divided, or such nation’s cities gifted to Russia as compensation for cities lost to China.)

Do you concur? I hope I am not speaking out of turn but as you know my aspirations are not with the UN but with England. In the mean time I will play the game of diplomacy that is required of me but I trust this information and ideas are at least useful to you.

Yours truly,

Brian

[Frank Johnson]

Inflitrators Switch to Urban Targets



Good Evening, I'm WaTi ConKai. We have a special report today from the Central Chinese Plains. We will now go live to our reporters out in the feild.

"I'm standing in front of the 2nd of two bombings that were carried out here in the flood plain town of WuXai. Located North of Beijing, this region has been known since anicent times as the business center of the Chinese Empire. Now after an apparent sucicide bombing spree in the central business district here, a great portion of the town is in ruins. Unlike previous attacks which targetted industrial centers, this attack was on an ordinary city center, that produces simple goods for daily life. Here we see a cannery in ruins. Its goods strune about as if struck by some natural distraster. Rescue workers feverishly tried to pull those trapped under rubble from the blasts free of the collpased structure in the central business strict. As of now it is unclear how many have died, but from the scale of the destruction I've seen, it could easily be in the thousands. The attack came as businesses were starting for the day when the greatest number of people were in the buildings and streets around the blast. As of yet, no group has claimed responsiblity for the attack, but Russian Communist inflitrators are suspected."

The government believes that its efforts in deploying the army to key resources forced the inflitrators to change tactics. Also reserves of resources were foiling the results the enemies of China desired, a weakened and powerless state. Now the attack has turned directly at the people of China. No word from the government as to how China will respond to the new level of cruelity. It is obvious however, it will be many many years before things ever get back to normal in WuXai.