A great big hello from a long time lurker

[brandonjm8]

Are you blind? His comment was clearly directed at YOU, for being abusive of the rules... with a side note directed at Ming that basically said, "stop trolling him."

How foolish will you feel when the ban comes down on you?

i already know your bias towards ming, you must be the "other" former owner of this website and think accusing people of cheating is acceptable and that your opinions are like laws to which there can be no higher. its also pretty easy to see hes broken the very rules he states all the time on multiple occasions, when you tell someone "at least i was a civ4 game tester" which is what ming said thats patronizing someone which is disrespectful hence not allowed. even if im banned, do you know how easy it is to get all the free email addresses and simply have 100 accounts here? give me 10 minutes and its done, youd never know it was me either. if you guys can be disrespectful then so can i, if im subject to being banned for being disrespectful then so are you guys too. theres a reason some people have stated "this website is a dying forum" . im not the only one who doesnt like ming and maybe even you, you think im alone on this but you are wrong .

you think that post was just meant for me, but since your narrow minded and thick headed like ming, i guess you didnt know that i DIDNT get a warning private message saying id be banned, robert plomp posted that out in the open since it applies to more than one person, try and think alittle bit more before trying to speak for someone other than yourself .

[Theben]

Here's a clue... look at the 'Join Date' under my name and Ming's... you'll notice we've both been here over 10 years (anyone with 1969 joined in 1998)... and I've met him IRL. So yes I have a good idea how he thinks at least on these forums and I mean it in the nicest possible way when I say he can be an ass. However let me be the 1st to tell you that if you think anyone here has been disrespectful of you you don't know the meaning of the word. Take a short walk down to the Off Topic and see how people talk to each other there, and maybe it'll dawn on you that not only have we been exceedingly patient with your antics, but handled you with kid's gloves.

If you ever decide to act like an adult (assuming you're near the age, which I'm not) we can discuss civ, even after all your behavior... b/c frankly I prefer that the flame wars stay in the OTF and we're very forgiving up here in the actual game forums. But if you continue to act childish expect to be treated as such.

And no I wasn't an owner... that was his brother rah. I guess that would be an "assumption" on your part that you claim others wrong you with...

[self biased]

and here i was looking foreward to trying his game, though i don't think i would enjoy it. i'm wondering if he realized that he lost out on quite a bit of commerce due to trade routes on his preferred settings.

[Brael]

and here i was looking foreward to trying his game, though i don't think i would enjoy it. i'm wondering if he realized that he lost out on quite a bit of commerce due to trade routes on his preferred settings.

Try it and we can compare if nothing else.

[wodan11]

no your not understanding me, with AW that +5 is now +10

No, it's not. You had the extra 5 (to go from 5 to 10) anyway. You can't credit the AW bonus to getting a Levee.

also i and others can have easily more than +5 hammers from specialists

You had the specialists anyway. You can't credit the specialists to getting a Levee.

the more hammer producing specialists you have the higher base rate for hammers and the higher total output of hammers compared to CE's.

Yes, your priest/SE will often have more hammers than a CE. Getting a Levee is a good idea and helps equally as much in either case.

no no no, where did i say and you get 50 for my NE city?

You said your NE typically has 100 GPP/turn. What's the bonus for NE? 100% (= x2). 100/2=50. This is simple math.

for example my current game, my cap is my NE city is at 112 GPP, i have four other cities 40-70 GPP

Now, you're today saying it's not 100, but 112. Nice backpedal, but this is still the same thing. 112/2=66. That's still less than 70. Which means you put your NE in a city which wasn't your top GPP producer.

i do do a GP farm

I said a "true GP farm" meaning one that is optimized for GP generation.

[wodan11]

brael does and anybody else that wants to play my map sizes, you might have to get it too to play my maps, its planet_generator_0_68 from civfanatics.com, if you look on like the 2nd page on the comparison thread brael put up a link to get it.

I think the main reason they are doing so is to do a side-by-side comparison with you. I don't recall anyone saying they thought it would be fun to play your settings. Yes, I'm going to try it, it'll be an interesting experience. In the same way that trying escargot would be an interesting experience.

well of course, but what if you hit your limits for happiness and also have all your specialists maxed out

If I'm running a slider SE then I don't have any limits for happiness and don't have any limits on specialists. That's exactly what we're talking about.

health wouldnt matter since you got what you needed, now of course you want to get more health but there are times when its of little concern, you are right that they are not that common but it does happen.

If I'm not running a slider SE then there are other sources for happiness... often more than there are sources for health. Yes, happiness is more critical because its effects are more detrimental. But there are more sources for it so it's easier to overcome. I can run Hereditary Rule, or I could spread religions and build temples, or any of a number of other things. Sources for health are much more limited.

[wodan11]

its actually rather pathetic a man his age stoops to accusing me of cheating since he thought i added stone or something on grass hills and then wodan told him hes seen it before and it happens then he doesnt even apologize to me for it, oh well right. just goes to show hes only out to get me .

Brandon, don't play the martyr, it doesn't fit you well.

Ming questioned it because it seemed suspicious, which it does. He didn't "accuse" you in a nasty way, as you imply.

Also, just because I pointed out that there's a possibility doesn't make it unsuspicous. It's suspicious even with that.

If you really want to defeat such "accusations", then start playing with the game locked, as has been suggested. If you do that, then nobody can say a word.

[wodan11]

If you ever decide to act like an adult (assuming you're near the age, which I'm not)

He's 26, if it matters.

Brandon, you were really on a tear last night. I counted no less than 7 direct insults, and that doesn't even include all the condescending "boy ming" appellations. To contrast, Ming was quite civil.

[Robert]

A banning has already been handed out.
Please stop the debate and focus on the original topic, if there's anything left of it. Otherwise I'll close the thread.

[wodan11]

Back to SE.

Norselord and a few others sprinkled in some tips. In the bigger picture: IMO, here are the basic types of SE. I'm going off the top of my head, so I may miss some. We can pick one or two of these to discuss, perhaps.

In no particular order:

• Caste
• Mixed GP type
• Parallel
• Priest
• SE->CE
• Artist (one of the ways to go for a Cultural Victory)
• Engineer (best as Germany)
• Merchant

There can be some overlap here. And, there can be transitions. As previously noted, SE changes dynamics over the game as buildings become available, civics become available, and as GP generation slows. So, it's natural to transition your economy at least once during the game. (Compared to a CE, where it's generally good to stick with CE for the whole game.) For example, doing a parallel SE early, then going to Caste or CE. Or, doing Caste and then going to State Property.

[Theben]

Now, you're today saying it's not 100, but 112. Nice backpedal, but this is still the same thing. 112/2=66.

Actually it's 56...

[wodan11]

Actually it's 56...

Urgh. Well, I'm in Eastern US time. So, look at the timestamp on my post. It was BC (before coffee).

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[rah]

IS it that straightforward? I remember checking after completing it in one of my cities the other day and I don't remember it being 50% higher. It was a bit lower so I was figured it was the normal that it didn't add the 50% to some other modifiers. I'll have to look more closely the next time.

[Ming]

A banning has already been handed out.
Please stop the debate and focus on the original topic, if there's anything left of it. Otherwise I'll close the thread.

Thanks... especially for removing much of the crap he and his DL's posted. Much appreciated.

There can be some overlap here. And, there can be transitions. As previously noted, SE changes dynamics over the game as buildings become available, civics become available, and as GP generation slows. So, it's natural to transition your economy at least once during the game. (Compared to a CE, where it's generally good to stick with CE for the whole game.) For example, doing a parallel SE early, then going to Caste or CE. Or, doing Caste and then going to State Property.

As Wodan points out, the game situation does change as it develops. It's key to understand what those changes mean, and to plan accordingly to maximize the results.

[Norselord]

Here is my take on the SE:
1) Need Bronzeworking, Farming and Masonry early.

Why BW? Not that BW isn't a good idea. I just wonder why you call it out as a requirement for SE. To chop the 'mids?

Yes, BW to chop the 'mids.

I have been working the Warlord strat + SE.
You need both 'mids and wall.
The only one to have a reasonable shot at both is to chopchop even if you are IND this may be needed.
Also, because you are focusing on getting those two wonders, there is only the opportunity of creating one settler+escort.
The second city almost HAS to be your military city, so you settle on revealed copper, and build begin building troops.

Getting both wonders will boost the player ahead in score quickly at the expense of a military, as a result the AI tends to DOW early. This is great for Warlord strat...if you are prepared.

I use the SE+Warlord+Espionage. Once i can lower my science slider down low and have alphabet, I crank up the Espionage slider and make spies. The espionage is handy for lifting the fog, letting you know where the enemy is coming from, so you can get your GG troops in place. It also allows for some nice diplo tricks (force civic/religion change), tech stealing (you won't need it, since your Science Specialists+Representation are zipping you through the tech tree), gold stealing, infrastructure/production sabotage, and general mayhem (revolts, well poisoning, etc)

You will also more than likely end up being first to COL, this allows you to found a religion. Founding a religion will assist you in getting other civs to DOW on you, if you don't spread it. Founding a religion obviously has other bennies that don't need to be spelled out. The other added help from COL is a slight boost in espionage/commerce from the courthouses.