A great big hello from a long time lurker

[wodan11]

having longbow's early can be a great help if you are sharing your continent with some lunatics

I prefer Maces, myself. While they're great sitting fortified in a city or fort, longbows aren't much use on offense.

well you said this prior: "That makes no sense. Caste System is a SE." so i was just stating my opinion that to me it isnt but it CAN be both.

Both? Both a SE and a what?

starting early wars where your intent is not to conquer CAN lead to the slowing of your own development having to build units instead of buildings and cities with some units.

Sure. And it can lead to that when your intent is to conquer, as well. And, skilled players can minimize or prevent altogether this potential negative, in either instance. I'm not sure what your point is here.

if its easy to slow them down like that then thats just a great opportunity. but would you sacrifice you own growth/development to steal workers or attempt to slow them down or would you sometimes wait for a more better opportune time to do so like with better and more units such as cats?

It's a pro/con decision. Such decisions are what makes players skilled. Same as choosing what civics to run. A player who almost always makes the same decision is avoiding or deflecting the opportunity to exercise skill in the decision making process.

i have no problems clarifying anything ive said for that reason. i try but im not perfect, i think too much/fast at times and my english skills arent the best , i try.

Keep trying, and we'll be fine here.

nope not moot, since my SE's have far more engineers/priests than my CE's my base rate is much higher from those two which adds to the base rate then add levee's then the multipliers. for example take a size 15 city with 6 specialists running my SE, that city has 1 engineer and 5 priests, thats 7 hammers or 12 w/ AW. now compare that to the same city running CE which will have fewer farmland thus wont have 6 specialists such as my SE city, get my point, my SE cities have higher base rate hammers since they have more hammer producing specialists which then adds to the multipliers thus an overall inflated increase of hammers since base rate is higher, simple math. and this is just for me. others my build differently or something like that.

a city has a river and gains +5

Your priest/SE gains +5 raw income, multiplied by buildings there.
A CE gains +5 raw income, multiplied by buildings there.

It's +5 either way.

simply put i have many cities producing alot of specialists each thus each is having a significant effect to my GPP rate.

Each city has its own GPP rate. A GP farm which is producing 3x or more of other cities will keep generating GP faster than other cities can generate any.

my NE city is my GP farm which is why i build it in that city. my other cities just have that many specialists too and they contribute alot of GP for me too. (parthenon will inflate this even more for me but is not required)

That's why I said it doesn't seem that you really know how to do a GP farm. Unless your GP farm is generating maximimum GPP, you're losing some of your NE benefit. The way to max your GPP generation is by putting your GP farm in your city with the most food, running more than "as many" specialists, and by putting wonders in there rather than spreading them out.

The more GPP you can concentrate in your GP farm, the more raw GP you are hitting with that awesome +100% multiplier!

yes i did, as long as questions/comments are in a respectful manner then my replies will be too. when questions/comments towards me have a condescending or smart-alec nature to them i just respond with the same. i am a civilized person i just dont take crap from anyone anymore, i cant ignore everything especially when someone flat out accuses me of something like fraud, i think you can appreciate how mad and/or annoyed if someone accused you of something that was utterly false and that accuser wouldnt listen to reason and/or clarification and just persisted with their false claims.

The fact that you have justifications doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.

I'm not going to reply to that topic any more.

[wodan11]

you really only run into health problems with a poor resource continent

Depends on mapscript. Most mapscripts spread out resources so that pigs (for example) only appear on one continent, not others. The idea being to encourage interaction with other players, whether by invasion or trade.

and plus your surpluses of food could be so high as to not need worry about it.

Each -1 is half of a citizen, so it's always a concern.

[brandonjm8]

I prefer Maces, myself. While they're great sitting fortified in a city or fort, longbows aren't much use on offense.

me too, i go for civil service after feudalism.

Both? Both a SE and a what?

well we were talking about whether CS is a CE or SE civic, i was just stating i dont consider it to be either especially my hybrid, id rather have serfdom. so in essence for other players CS CAN be both, im just stating the possibilities others may have and their own opinions.

Sure. And it can lead to that when your intent is to conquer, as well. And, skilled players can minimize or prevent altogether this potential negative, in either instance. I'm not sure what your point is here.

key word you just said "CAN", id rather go for a sure thing then to rely too much. sure things arent always in your control but if they are wouldnt you wait for a sure thing? i can easily wipe out people while still growing/expanding with great science too, but i do that more often when im in control, im sure you do too.

It's +5 either way.

thats w/o AW, add +5 with AW. and that was just one example, i have many cities with 10+ priests where as my CE city would never have that many if i were building cottages instead of farms. basically the higher the base the more effect multipliers have thus my hybrid SE's have awesome production since i build for such ect.

Each city has its own GPP rate. A GP farm which is producing 3x or more of other cities will keep generating GP faster than other cities can generate any. That's why I said it doesn't seem that you really know how to do a GP farm. Unless your GP farm is generating maximimum GPP, you're losing some of your NE benefit. The way to max your GPP generation is by putting your GP farm in your city with the most food, running more than "as many" specialists, and by putting wonders in there rather than spreading them out. The more GPP you can concentrate in your GP farm, the more raw GP you are hitting with that awesome +100% multiplier!

your not grasping how many great GP producing cities i tend to amass. my NE city is always around +100 GPP and my others are hovering around 40-70 especially if i get parthenon. sure my GP farm is producing alot more but my other cities combine for 33% of the other GP i get.

i already knew what you said , my wonders tend to be spread out to 3-5 cities 5 at most, for those reasons and a possible CV.

ive easily had my GP farm over +150 GPP before and 90-99% of my games its over 100.

[brandonjm8]

Depends on mapscript. Most mapscripts spread out resources so that pigs (for example) only appear on one continent, not others. The idea being to encourage interaction with other players, whether by invasion or trade.

the mapscript i use uses the same resource generator as the normal does. its just that with the sheer size of the map there will be alot usually of each resource and they are spread apart, most are anyways but some like certain grains and seafood may not be.

and plus your surpluses of food could be so high as to not need worry about it.

Each -1 is half of a citizen, so it's always a concern.[/QUOTE]

only a concern if its keeping you from maxing out that city's specialists.

[wodan11]

well we were talking about whether CS is a CE or SE civic, i was just stating i dont consider it to be either especially my hybrid, id rather have serfdom. so in essence for other players CS CAN be both, im just stating the possibilities others may have and their own opinions.

I can't imagine running Caste System in a CE. I'd rather run Emancipation, Serfdom, Slavery, or even Tribalism.

key word you just said "CAN", id rather go for a sure thing then to rely too much. sure things arent always in your control but if they are wouldnt you wait for a sure thing?

There is no sure thing on higher levels. If you want a sure thing, you play on a level below your true skill.

thats w/o AW, add +5 with AW. and that was just one example, i have many cities with 10+ priests where as my CE city would never have that many if i were building cottages instead of farms. basically the higher the base the more effect multipliers have thus my hybrid SE's have awesome production since i build for such ect.

+5 have the same effect no matter how many specialists you're running.

your not grasping how many great GP producing cities i tend to amass. my NE city is always around +100 GPP and my others are hovering around 40-70 especially if i get parthenon.

So, you have cities which are generating more GPP than your NE city (your NE city is 50 and you have other cities "40-70"). So I was correct that you don't maximize your NE bonus for your GP farm.

What you're really doing here is running a parallel SE on a grand scale. That's fine, and yes it will amass a ton of GPP, but most of that GPP is going to be wasted / down the drain.

Bottom line the question is what are the pros/cons, and what are the alternatives. i.e., if you did a true GP farm, how would it compare?

[Theben]

only a concern if its keeping you from maxing out that city's specialists.

Isn't that kinda the point for a GP farm?!

[wodan11]

the mapscript i use uses the same resource generator as the normal does. its just that with the sheer size of the map there will be alot usually of each resource and they are spread apart, most are anyways but some like certain grains and seafood may not be.

I don't think there's a single person on Apolyton who uses the same mapscript as you do. So your experience is not typical.

Each -1 is half of a citizen, so it's always a concern.

only a concern if its keeping you from maxing out that city's specialists.

And that's exactly what it does, so, as I said, it's always a concern.

(Except it's not just "specialists" but "citizens". Specialists are a type of citizen. Citizens can do other things, such as work tiles.)

[brandonjm8]

There is no sure thing on higher levels. If you want a sure thing, you play on a level below your true skill.

i'll have "sure things" on higher levels too, i did on monarch. good planning and timing will result in "sure things" where the risk is minimal, now sometimes thats not always within reach but i still try to, its just smart.

+5 have the same effect no matter how many specialists you're running.

no your not understanding me, with AW that +5 is now +10, also i and others can have easily more than +5 hammers from specialists, the more hammer producing specialists you have the higher base rate for hammers and the higher total output of hammers compared to CE's.

So, you have cities which are generating more GPP than your NE city (your NE city is 50 and you have other cities "40-70"). So I was correct that you don't maximize your NE bonus for your GP farm.

no no no, where did i say and you get 50 for my NE city? for example my current game, my cap is my NE city is at 112 GPP, i have four other cities 40-70 GPP, my NE city is pumping out alot more than those four but those four are producing their fair share just from specialists, i also have half dozen or so around 20-40 and yes most of them may never produce one but maybe they can, during the late part of the game if im short of specific GP for example corps i can just switch to pacifism for alittle bit and skyrocket my GPP in all cities, ive done it once to get two quick engineers and a merchant since i had two scientists.

Bottom line the question is what are the pros/cons, and what are the alternatives. i.e., if you did a true GP farm, how would it compare?

i do do a GP farm, those are my NE cities, your just not understanding me. i get alot of specialists and i have many many huge cities pumping out beakers/gold/GP/hammers many.

[brandonjm8]

I don't think there's a single person on Apolyton who uses the same mapscript as you do. So your experience is not typical.

brael does and anybody else that wants to play my map sizes, you might have to get it too to play my maps, its planet_generator_0_68 from civfanatics.com, if you look on like the 2nd page on the comparison thread brael put up a link to get it.

(Except it's not just "specialists" but "citizens". Specialists are a type of citizen. Citizens can do other things, such as work tiles.)

well of course, but what if you hit your limits for happiness and also have all your specialists maxed out, health wouldnt matter since you got what you needed, now of course you want to get more health but there are times when its of little concern, you are right that they are not that common but it does happen.

[Ming]

no no no, where did i say and you get 50 for my NE city?

That's exactly what you seem to be saying when you said:

your not grasping how many great GP producing cities i tend to amass. my NE city is always around +100 GPP and my others are hovering around 40-70 especially if i get parthenon.

If your NE city is around 100, the base rate is only around 50. Which means you have other cities which are even higher in their base rate.

[brandonjm8]

That's exactly what you seem to be saying when you said:


If your NE city is around 100, the base rate is only around 50. Which means you have other cities which are even higher in their base rate.

notice the "+" before 100, it reads as +100 which means more than 100 .

[Ming]

Then why didn't you say what it was... are you saying it was 102 or 1,000.

[brandonjm8]

Then why didn't you say what it was... are you saying it was 102 or 1,000.

didnt need to, +100 is good enough.

why dont you pay more attention to what you are reading?

why do you try to tell people how to post their posts? you just did.

why dont you get a life and actually offer advice/stories that relates to you to people who want to hear them?

now "boy ming" go outside and play, go get dirty then take a bath afterwards

[Ming]

Obviously +100 wasn't good enough, since you weren't being clear. The two people that commented on it based it on what you posted.

[brandonjm8]

Obviously +100 wasn't good enough, since you weren't being clear. The two people that commented on it based it on what you posted.

actually its only one, you dont count. if you had retained any of your education then you know "+100" is the same as ">100" which both means greater than or more than 100.

if people dont want to post according to what and how you want, get used to it, you dont matter.

now go play "boy ming"