Who wants to play in a Apolyton civ 4 succession game?

[Hauptman]

Actually, I think we're currently at peace with everyone.

Not for long baby. just tell me when =)



EDIT: well looks like Thoth posted his minus screenies... So firing this bad boy up.

Keepin ya posted.

[Hauptman]

Ok loaded it up to take a gander...

First off, it's prince.... we have a huge tech lead on the world. even with or un developed land, 100 turns with me and this games likely over, but i digress...

Constructive critisisms inc.

We gained control of the great lighthouse and your running mercantilism? ouch. that wonder's too good to waste like that. thank you for leaving me in a golden age however, lets me fix that with no turn loss. Popped back to uncentralized and gained 30 commerce per turn cash money.

Great library city should always be the oxford university city. coulda forgone the moi statues and gained better tech bonus, but ive already set in motion the fix.

Also, we have workers working alone... Yer turns must take forever, stack them badboys up and get stuff done!

Uhhg half my time is going to be spent on infrastructure. But im sure u shall all be pleased with the result.

[Dinner]

With all the recent conquests it seems we do have to build up our infrastructure a bit.

[Thoth]

Why is that? When jumbos are obsoleted by Pikes or Rifles and the like the AIs will still pay an arm and a leg for Ivory - at least a luxury resource + ~10gpt. Plus at that point you probably rather have them building jumbos than muskets frex

One of the best trade resources in the game.

Ellies remain effective as stack defenders up until Mil Trad (and Formation Ellies can give Cuiriassers a run for their money). I prefer not to have to go up against them if I can help it.

I was already getting as much gpt from the AIs I was willing to trade with (the Jewish bloc), so the trade value was not high. Plus what I don't have can't be demanded.

[slnz]

Plus what I don't have can't be demanded.

I love resource demands. +1 diplo for a resource deal you can safely cancel in 10 turns, what's not to like?

[Theben]

[Y]our running mercantilism?

Fixed.

[Hauptman]

Bah first international trade i made was to hanibal. ivory for incence plus cash.

Redcoats love blowing up mounted units.

Will finish the game up at some point tonight and figure out image shack...

[Dinner]

Just hit print screen (upper right on key board) then go to user name/my documents/games/BTS/screen shots. Cut and paste the screen shot you want to the desktop then upload it to imageshack. Imageshack will give you a link for forums with the IMG tags already in place.

[Thoth]

Ok loaded it up to take a gander...

First off, it's prince.... we have a huge tech lead on the world. even with or un developed land, 100 turns with me and this games likely over, but i digress...

Constructive critisisms inc.

We gained control of the great lighthouse and your running mercantilism? ouch. that wonder's too good to waste like that. thank you for leaving me in a golden age however, lets me fix that with no turn loss. Popped back to uncentralized and gained 30 commerce per turn cash money.

Great library city should always be the oxford university city. coulda forgone the moi statues and gained better tech bonus, but ive already set in motion the fix.

Also, we have workers working alone... Yer turns must take forever, stack them badboys up and get stuff done!

Uhhg half my time is going to be spent on infrastructure. But im sure u shall all be pleased with the result.

Mercantalism was run for the hammers. It gave us 13 Engineers, 10 of which were in cities building infrastructure for a total of 30 hammers/turn in
those cities. The 8 or so net hammers from the other 3 plus the 10 hammers from citizens in newly conquored cities bring the total up to about 48 or so net hammers per turn. This is worth a lot more than a palty 30 commerce.

Most of the bonus trade routes from TGL are in small, undeveloped cities. The extra commerce simply isn't worth the loss of hammers.

Your descision to switch to Caste and Pacifism is also sub-obtimal. Serfdom was giving us 14 support free worker turns/turn. Caste let you run one extra specialist in our GP farm. This is a lousy trade off. Had you stuck with serfdom, we'd have another 700 worker turns of tile improvements completed by the time of your save (plus another 600g in saved Civic Maintenance)

Pacifism does not "leverage" the Philosiphical trait. Running lots of specialist in a lot of cities does. However, the terrain and tile improvements we have are not suited to this style of play. Our science is coming from worked cottages and commerce specials which are worth a great deal more than non-Represantation specialists. Pacifism gave you a 25% net boost to your GPP rate. This is not a worthwhile trade off for the loss of bonus hammers from Organized Religion.

As to your assertion that "Oxford should always be built in the Great Library city", this is only true if you are running a specialist heavy empire under Representation. We are not. Oxford in our best commerce city is by far a better bet. Your attempt to "remedy" the problem was a waste of two Great Scientists. GS are worth a base of 6 beakers, with Lib, Uni, Acadamy and Oxford that amounts to 18 net beakers per turn. Building an acadamy in Uzbec would have netted about 25-30 beakers per turn (it would be more if you had bothered to cottage it up the rest of the way). Bulbing would have gained us about 5700 or more beakers. Either of these uses would have been better than settling them.

You also managed to completely ruin our chances of another golden age any time soon by throwing away both the Great Merchant from Economics and the Great Artist that was being saved for that purpose. The settled GM is producing 6g per turn. With no multipliers. This is a very bad return compared to the alternatives (using for a GAge, sending on a trade mission or saving for Sid's Sushi). I cannot fathom why you would even consider settling the Great Artist. It gets us 3g per turn plus a little bit of culture. 1/3 of a Golden Age would have been much more powerful. Using either of the Great Scientists you settled to complete the trifecta we need for our 4th Golden age would have been far superior to settling.


You wasted over 95 worker turns building 3 forts? That won't do anything in the event of an attack? The AI would simply walk around them and you'd be forced to retreat the units into the city. (and Hanibal is zero threat to attack. He's at Friendly and likely to stay there with even the smallest diplomatic effort. You've done no work around Paris or Orleans. Both cities could have been fully watermilled/lumbermilled by now (and the Stock Exchange in Orleans would have been completed many turns ago if you'd let those chops complete). You've built mines and workshops around London that it doesn't have the food to use and won't until after Biology. Teotihuican is still missing 2 cottages, there were three workers in the area that could have completed the cottages and finished off cottaging the land around Uzbec by now.

You wasted another 30 turns farming over two villages near Nottingham. Exchanging a 2F 5c tile for a three food tile is a lousy exchange and a waste of worker turns. You built 3 workshops near Coventry which has the population to work 1 and the surplus food to work 2. Another 36 wasted worker turns.

I count over 210 wasted worker turns that you have spent building useless and even counterproductive tile improvements. This doesn't include all the turns you have wasted moving stacks of 6 workers onto jungle tiles that require 2 moves to enter.


Your trade of Ivory to Hannibal was pointless. We already have a source of incence.



I think "appalled" would be a better word than pleased.

[Dinner]

Well, everyone has different game styles and the point of a succession game is to learn from other people so we can all get better. As well as to have a good time so let's make sure our criticism is constructive and encouraging. After all we're all at different levels; I know I'm not an expert.

[Thoth]

Well, everyone has different game styles and the point of a succession game is to learn from other people so we can all get better. As well as to have a good time so let's make sure our criticism is constructive and encouraging. After all we're all at different levels; I know I'm not an expert.

It might have been a little bit harsh, but Hauptman styles himself as an "expert". I put a lot of time and effort into my turnset to get us to where we were at 1000 AD and seeing a lot of it squandered through bad play by a self proclaimed "expert" pissed me off royally.

He complains about the French lands not being improved and then proceeds to post a 50 turn update in which he managed to not improve a single tile in the French lands.


I'll be a whole lot more gentle when I get around to critiquing your opening.

[Blaupanzer]

Thoth, providing an explanation as to why you left the economy in the state you did, Mercantilism and all, would have been useful at handoff. Obviously these things are NOT self-evident. So, when jumping on the changer, be aware this is the first he has heard of your reasoning despite the fact that you wrote up your hundred turns. Each of us has different orientations per civics, improvements, and diplomacy. For example I operate on the assumption that a "friendly AI" WILL attack if there is an opportunity. The forts, which I usually don't use, could be to serve as towns for defending stacks instead of the actual cities. War comes in the back part.

[Dinner]

I'll be a whole lot more gentle when I get around to critiquing your opening.

I guess my whole bit with the opening was to expand, expand, expand. To that end I hadn't yet gotten around to making enough workers but I like to switch back and forth (I.E. I wait until the city grows to three then slave the worker so as to minimize the amount of time the city isn't growing). Working on a building is just to fill the time until a city reaches pop 3 and allows me to slave those early workers.

The only obvious error I could see I made was not building one square closer to the gold. At the time there were barbarians in the area and I was worried about barbarian attacks so I built on a hill to get the +25% defensive value but really I should have sucked it up and moved the city one square south. The other cities were well located I believe (three on the same river for increased trade and health with one essentially located to grab some horses).

[self biased]

not to mention that the 25% bonus in the late game isn't nearly worth as much as having a mine on a hill, especially if it's the only hill around.

though, i'm still wondering in the eyes of the others how i did. i admit fully to being a novice player.

[Blaupanzer]

SB, I liked your moves for the most part. Did well taming France's thrust. This is best done pre-SODs, so those stacks can finish him off. I'm strictly an amateur too. I've yet to see how Hauptmann intends to "end the game" in 50 moves, but we'll see.