42 turns left?

[JeebusGreen]

Australia should get rid of the Monarchy civic but is too lazy to want to spend a turn in anarchy changing it.

And is trying to spread it's culture, but doesn't generate enough to make a lego city flip and is too far away from anything anyway.

[Nohbody8]

Heard a story on the way to work about how Russia is rattling it's saber over one of its former vassals (Ukraine) signing up with NATO. They went so far as to say they will redirect some of their tactical nukes.

The story also talked about how Russia is unhappy with America's plans to place some SDI technology in Poland and the Czech Republic in an attempt to protect European allies from the supposed tactical nukes of Persia/Iran.

[Unimatrix11]

Originally posted by Nohbody8
Heard a story on the way to work about how Russia is rattling it's saber over one of its former vassals (Ukraine) signing up with NATO. They went so far as to say they will redirect some of their tactical nukes.

The story also talked about how Russia is unhappy with America's plans to place some SDI technology in Poland and the Czech Republic in an attempt to protect European allies from the supposed tactical nukes of Persia/Iran.

So America does get some news, uh ? Seriously, the poand-czech-SDI-thing is about a year old, at least. Hey - and of course Russia will adjust their nuke-aiming, when a neighboring country joins another, potentially hostile, alliance. BTW, SDI violates the SALT II treaty, if i am not mistaken. I think it was that one, that limits strategic missile defence to Moscow for the Russians and norad-hq for the US. And the Iran is obviously a pretext - so far, Iran does not possess neither nukes nor any longe range carrier system - and they are probably further from the later than they are from the former even. So the planned SDI-facilities in eastern Europe are clearly put up, in order to nullify what can be considered the remainder of russian strength. Putin is not a man to be fooled by pretext - neither one that will just go with whatever is dealt to him.

[Heraclitus]

hey give the guy a break he is just one turn out of touch

[Unimatrix11]

I just wanna elaborate a little further on the Iran.
If it had nukes, and intended to use them in a ´villian way´ (which i highly doubt, cause they would be aware of the consequences), who would they use them against ? Israel. It´s well known they had them and they would just need short-med range carrier systems for that. Plus they are the number one attackable threat to further nuclear build-up (just a couple of days ago Mr. Olmert indirectly warned Iran of a pre-emptive air-strike to destroy nuclear facilities, should they attempt any progress towards the bomb). So what is SDI in czechia and poland be any good for that ? The whole claim just lines up neatly with ´9/11 is a NATO-case´ and ´Iraq has WMDs´ and all that oher BS of the bush-administration.

The total effect of that administration is that any country who is not willing to ´culture-flip´ and open borders for US-corp-exec, and sell all their ressources, better gets its hands on nukes ASAP. Had Iraq had any, the US would (and could !) have not attacked it (so much for logic - i pity anyone who fell for that one even for a minute - "oh, the guy has nukes and is willing to use them - london could be a nuclear hell within 45 minutes" - "yeah okay- lets slowly assemble a cenventional army in front of his borders and then pass out the most outragous ultimatum since the Habsburgs" - "yeah - he is such a villian that he will never use his WMDs to defend his country !" - makes sense, uh ? Seriously: How dumb are people ?! And then they search the country for them after the war is won - it´s like looking for easter eggs on xmas... sorry but...).

BTW SDI facilities are also planned to be put up in the caucasian republics. Now if you were russian, and felt obligated to a treaty you once signed, not to build any SDI, how would you react upon such blatant break of treaty coupled with this kind of encirclement encroaching ?

[Nohbody8]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11 So America does get some news, uh ? Seriously, the poand-czech-SDI-thing is about a year old, at least.

Actually, I get a lot of news from NPR. I have known about this SDI issue for a long time but I just now created this thread. Not all Americans have resigned themselves to living like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed manure.

Originally posted by Unimatrix11 BTW, SDI violates the SALT II treaty, if i am not mistaken. I think it was that one, that limits strategic missile defence to Moscow for the Russians and norad-hq for the US.

I never said I agreed with what was going on.

Originally posted by Unimatrix11 And the Iran is obviously a pretext - so far, Iran does not possess neither nukes nor any longe range carrier system - and they are probably further from the later than they are from the former even.

Obviously...hence my use of the word "supposed" when describing the tactical nukes.

Originally posted by Unimatrix11 The whole claim just lines up neatly with ´9/11 is a NATO-case´ and ´Iraq has WMDs´ and all that oher BS of the bush-administration.

Once again, never said I agreed with what was going on.

Originally posted by Unimatrix11 Had Iraq had any, the US would (and could !) have not attacked it (so much for logic - i pity anyone who fell for that one even for a minute

Originally posted by Unimatrix11 Seriously: How dumb are people ?!

Judging by the flag you have chosen to identify yourself with, I could ask you the same question.

[Hauptman]

Because your country of origin has such a spotless record of not believing everything it's told.

OUCH.

Now now, if you want to talk politics, goto veeshanvault.org. This is a game site. Talk CIV!

[Nohbody8]

I was trying to and then Unimatrix11 had to bring his personal politics into my attempt at a fun, light-hearted thread.

Speaking of fun and light-hearted, that's a pretty interesting sig Hauptman.

[Unimatrix11]

Sorry, Nohbody8, i did not in any way intent to insult you. It´s a pity sometimes, that ´tone´ (which was intended to be more of the stand-up-comedian type, rather than the mad guy yelling type) doesnt deliver in the net. I obviously didnt take that into account and therefore need to apologize if anyone felt insulted by what i wrote. I did not assume with my statements, that you (or anyone here) would be dumb or ignorant. I was more talking about, well, you know, ´the public´, ´the great masses of the people´... whatever you call it. It´s just that sometimes i get mad about the common perception of politics and get carried away occasionally with that madness (when i am drunk, i can rant like Hitler - so this was still a ´light´version of it). Again: If anyone felt directly adressed by insulting words i used, it is a misunderstanding, due to me being inprecise, for which i do apologize.

BTW: My flag is taken from Star Trek - i heard it occured in the original series, but i only saw it in ´Enterprise: A mirror darkly´ (season 4, late episode), which is a cool episode somehow, telling the story of the evil human empire in a parallel universe - and this is its flag.

[Nohbody8]

Apology accepted and that was a cool episode.

[Unimatrix11]

döööd-döödöödöödödöö (sound of peace-trumpets)

[Indalecio]

Originally posted by Kc7mxo


Africa has mostly been overrun by barbarians again.

Off-topic, but anybody think it'd be a good idea for cities suffering from lots of unhappiness or unhealthiness to occasionally spawn barbarian units, even in the modern era? Or possibly one of city's own units becoming a barbarian unit?

[Nohbody8]

At the very least, it would be neat if there were some sort of unhappiness effect on neighboring cities that could spread if left unchecked.

[Common Sensei]

Originally posted by Nohbody8
At the very least, it would be neat if there were some sort of unhappiness effect on neighboring cities that could spread if left unchecked.

While the Statue of Liberty wonder abstracts the influx of immigration somewhat, I always thought that if citizens in a civ's cities are angry for long enough, they will emigrate to another civ.

Upside would be you get bonus pop, downside would be that the other civ has gains a small percentage of culture in that city. Perhaps this effect would be magnified after certain technologies make travel easier, like Astronomy.

[joncnunn]

On possibilty of Space Race Victory:

Well, the American Civ was first (and still only) country to build the National Apollo Project but it appears the Chinese are currently building their own version. And the US has not yet built a single SS component. The US does have the important AL resource but no one has even started the Space Elevator World Wonder. It is looking increasingly unlikely that anybody could build a spaceship in time to reach Alpha Centauri before the game ends in 2050.

On possibily of Diplomatic Victory:
The US finished the UN world wonder in 1946 at NYC, but a few years later lost effective control of the UN. Even while it was in their control, only Emmancipation has passed. On the most recent such votes Russia & China led those voted Never on Universal Suffrage and Free Speech, while the US led those voting Never to the Enviormentalism civic, and Arab states in bloc voted Never to Free Religion. No one has anywhere near the vote count needed to win a Diplomatic Victory and it is looking like someone would have to declare war to either conquer or at least cause to capitualte at least two of the major powers (US, Russia, China, India, Japan, EU) to possibility win.

On the possibility of Domination Victory:
In many regards all powers are much further away from this than it has been in centuries. Right after the French & Indian War, it appeared the British empire was well on it's way to achieving a domination victory, but has since granted indepence to virtually all it's colonies. It would take a succesful series of major wars for any country to get back into the ballpark and the increased troop counts now compared to a few centuries ago have greatly increased the WW issues from fighting.

On the possibility of a Conquest Victory:
There was only one leader in all of history that appeared to actually be trying to acheive a conquest victory as opposed to mere domination, and that collapsed in large part when it was realized the world was several times bigger than previously thought.

On the possibility of a Religious Victory:
While Rome did build the Aposoltic Palace, it never did succeed in spreading Christanity to a city in every country before it expired. All countries are now in possesion of that tech so it is now impossible.

On the possibility of a Culture Victory:
Several Middle Eastern civs (Egypt, Babylon, Greece among the most promident) did try to win a cultural victory via massive building of wonders in the early game; however each of these at time lost most of their wonders when they failed to adequately protect the cities and many cases they were burned to the ground along with the cities. Of late the US has built a lot of Wonders, but NYC & LA are both far short of the 50K culture needed to become legarday and there is no 3rd city to speak of. Perhaps the EU is closest with having signifcant culture in London, France, and Rome, but it still appears unlikely that they can get all three above 50K by 2050.