Hitler as a leader

[Bkeela]

I think Hitler was great, and I would love him in Civ IV, but the PC crowd couldn't cope. BOO HOO

[Pinchak]

I laugh at your overuse of the word "no" as a response to everything.

Reminds me of my three year old daughter.

[Kuciwalker]

Your inane assertions deserve little more.

edit: and Solver, he's a Prince. Not a noob, so fair game for deserved criticism.

[Pinchak]

No.



There... can i be uber too now?



******...

[Kuciwalker]

I'm not the one who asserted that Hittler (sic) came close to conquering the world, nor the one who asserted that the Germans are trying to cover up their past.

[Jaybe]

Hitler is too controversial to be included so soon -- perhaps in another few generations. Most Germans are still very sensitive to the carnage they brought upon their neighbors and to themselves. Should George W. Bush be a Firaxis-provided leader in Civ? of COURSE not.

Pinchak, act your age. Or are you a neo-nazi/ultra-nationalist yourself?

[Kuciwalker]

Ooooh, escalation. This should be fun.

[Pinchak]

Had America not become involved in WW2 there is a very real chance that the Axis could have taken total control of Europe, Africa, and most of Asia. From there who knows but chances are they would not have stopped.

And yes, the Germans are trying to hide from their past. What else would you call banning games that contain Hitler as a historical figure, and banning a Santa because of its arm position? Come on now.

If they find these things so offensive, THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE ALL FELL INTO LINE WHEN HITLER SAID SO. Sure some went along out of fear, but most of them embraced Nazism.

It really isn't too big of a surprise though. Germans tend to be cold, souless, douchbags IMO. I worked for a German owned company, so I speak from experience. Just from normal everyday observations it was very clear to me how if any nation would attempt global domination without regard to moral issues, it would be these people.

Just as an interesting side note, I'm one quarter German.

[Kuciwalker]

Had America not become involved in WW2 there is a very real chance that the Axis could have taken total control of Europe, Africa, and most of Asia. From there who knows but chances are they would not have stopped.

I reject the premise.

And yes, the Germans are trying to hide from their past. What else would you call banning games that contain Hitler as a historical figure, and banning a Santa because of its arm position? Come on now.

It's an admission of their guilt, you dufus. The Germans feel profoundly guilty of the Holocaust.

If they find these things so offensive, THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE ALL FELL INTO LINE WHEN HITLER SAID SO. Sure some went along out of fear, but most of them embraced Nazism.

you're either a complete idiot or a brilliant troll.

[Pinchak]

Oh yeah... they feel REALLY guilty now that they lost...

I'm sure if they would have won the war they all would have woke up one day and said, "hey, maybe what we are doing is morally wrong. Lets stop and feel really guilty and ban anything to do with the political party that took us so far".

Nah... they are like the little kid who fakes guilt to lessen the punishment. Trust me, if they had the chance, they would start WW3.

And saying that if Hitler was included as a leader we might as well have GW Bush is just a dumb compairison.

Hitler changed the world through conquest. Bush just spent a trillion dollars to oust a tyrant.

[Pinchak]

you're either a complete idiot or a brilliant troll.

I'm neither. I just don't readily conform to groupthink, or accept past decision as "right".

As an American, I hold free speech as one of the most important rights one can have.

Although the American slavery policy that extended halfway through the 1800's probably ended up killing more Africans then Nazism killed Jews, you can still hang a confederate flag in your front yard if you wish (incase anyone is wondering... no i do not own a confederate flag )

I guess the point I am trying to make is that censorship is censorship. The Nazis employed censorship to a large degree. Modern Germany continues this.

Which is all fine and dandy. They can ban laderhosen for all i care... unless it means MY experience is altered by a lack of laderhosen in Civ.

If Germany did not ban Hitler would he be a leader in Civ? I think almost certainly so.

Stalin murdered millions of his own people, Cesaer had thousands of Christians tortured and killed, Gengius Khan would have entired towns eradicated woman and children included, Mao's track record isn't all that pretty, etc, etc, etc. So it is not a moral choice on the part of Farixis or whoever the heck has control of what goes in Civ.

Really, if Farixis is worried about selling copies of Civ in Germany, they should make a non-Hitler version. Not censor the whole game.

And I don't care if you call me an idiot, a dufus, or a nazi for my opinions. I WILL take a major dump on the face of anyone who censors ideas because they think they know what is best for you.

It is that type of thinking that fueled the Nazi movement in the first place.

[Harovan]

Best thread EVER!

[Robert]

Last warning: Stop the personal insults or the topic will be closed.

[Robert]

@Pinchak, I don't think that you can compare the Germans with America. The Germans still feel very guilty for what their nation has done in the last century (responsible for 2 world wars!)

I think they're handling it very mature and well. They do not shy away for apologizing for their past (which many nations never have done!). They don't hide it and they discuss it in schools and everywhere all the time.

But there are still Neo-Nazis in Germany. All they want is not another world war started by Germany. Not again! And therefor they have strict laws consering the Nazis and Hitler. And it's obvious that every good law has it's weird sides, that's unavoidable. I don't think that publishing Hitler in a game is that bad, but the question is, where's the limit? And then it's better to just have a general limit, after all it's not that bad to not have Hitler in a game, it's only a game after all.

Perhaps it's hard to understand from an American point of view how hard both world wars have hitted the old continent last century. Europeans and Americans are the same in many things, but there are huge differences as well. We carry a long and loaded past with us.

Can you imagine that it's only 65 years ago Europe had more or less the same circumstances as North Korea has now? Horrible cruelities that seem so far away from us (North Korea, Iraq, Africa) happened only 65 years ago! There are people living in Europe who sufferend in camps. That's such a difference with America. We are different.

The bottom line is that I think that the German administration is handling the Hitler thing in a very wise way.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by CyberShy
@Pinchak, I don't think that you can compare the Germans with America. The Germans still feel very guilty for what their nation has done in the last century (responsible for 2 world wars!)

No.

(You can't pin the first one on germans.)

Originally posted by Pinchak


This makes me wonder.... do German history books cover the Nazis? Or do they just leave those 5 years out?

They were on vacation!