What seems to be the best leader after Warloards.

[Watiggi]

Whoa! Mr Bee has just said that you get the first GG at 20xp and then the next comes at 40xp, 60xp, 80xp, etc!

That is quite regular....cool

To quote Mr Bee exactly (just in case I misinterpreted it):

Quoted by mrbee
The Great Generals first appear when you've accumulated 20xp. After that, each new General costs an additional 20xp over the previous one. (20/40/60/80/etc.)

Also, Aggressive does not build the Stables quickly (which means Expansive does... grrr).

[Thedrin]

I'm thinking that XP for GG generation has to be affected by game speed and that is the Normal rate.

It's quite bizarre that Expansive would increase the rate at which stables are built. All Expansive bonuses go towards further health benefits while all Aggressive bonuses go towards further military benefits. Are you certain that's right?

[Watiggi]

Well, according to Mr Bee (who really has now checked it twice for me) said that Aggressive hasn't been nerfed nor does it build the Stables any faster

Bummer. It would really make sense though if Aggressive did quick build the Stables as it is an xp improvement. Strange. If you think about it, the Stables does nothing for expanding, so to speak.

[Thedrin]

The settler bonus will only help at the begining of the game in the expansion period too. After that, it no longer helps. It may allow you to settle faster or it may help you to build military earlier, but if say you end up settling 10 cities on a huge map before it fills up, then you have saved yourself 25*10 hammers - 250 hammers. That's 5 Horse Archers. That isn't much when compared to what Charismatic offers.

The earlier the game bonus the more powerful it is. You haven't factored in getting the best city sites by having your settlers out before your opponents. To me the cheap settlers looks like the best individual bonus given by any of the traits.

Regarding stables: The preview which said that Shaka gets cheaper stables may have been mistaken. Maybe no one gets them.

[Watiggi]

Originally posted by Thedrin


The earlier the game bonus the more powerful it is. You haven't factored in getting the best city sites by having your settlers out before your opponents. To me the cheap settlers looks like the best individual bonus given by any of the traits.

It's not how early or how powerful it is that I have a problem with, it's the longengivity it has. The settler bonus ends really quick (whereas Charismatic's both bonuses last a while and so does Expansives).

Regarding stables: It may have been a mistake in the original preview which said that Shaka gets cheaper stables. Maybe know one does.

Good point. It will be interesting to see what happens. It also answers my question about Aggressive mounted units getting Combat I too.

[Solver]

Bummer. It would really make sense though if Aggressive did quick build the Stables as it is an xp improvement.

Repeat after me: balance, balance, balance. That's the thing that makes sense - for traits to be balanced.

[Thedrin]

Originally posted by Watiggi

It's not how early or how powerful it is that I have a problem with, it's the longengivity it has. The settler bonus ends really quick (whereas Charismatic's both bonuses last a while and so does Expansives).

To me nothing has a greater effect on the outcome of the game than where I place my initial cities - regardless of strategy. Currently my two favourite traits are creative and organised because they give an advantage in where cities can go. Now I can't rate Charismatic and my thoughts on Imperialistic may prove way off, but the advantage which an imperialistic civ seems to have in getting the best city placements over non-imperialist rivals will more than make up for the catch up effect of the Expansive trait which (unless you get really lucky with luxuries) won't have much of an empire-wide effect until the mid game.

Edit: To put all that another way; the cheap settlers of the Imperialistic civ look to be so powerful that it would unbalance the game if the advantage lasted any longer than it does.

[Watiggi]

Originally posted by Solver

Bummer. It would really make sense though if Aggressive did quick build the Stables as it is an xp improvement.

Repeat after me: balance, balance, balance. That's the thing that makes sense - for traits to be balanced.

Someone should have repeated that constantly in the ear of the person who created Charismatic I mean, really, both of Charismatic's bonuses are pretty darn big bonuses.

[Thedrin]

Deleted

[Solver]

Originally posted by Watiggi

Someone should have repeated that constantly in the ear of the person who created Charismatic I mean, really, both of Charismatic's bonuses are pretty darn big bonuses.

It's +1 happy, though, not +2 for a new city, which is much better.

[Watiggi]

Originally posted by Solver


It's +1 happy, though, not +2 for a new city, which is much better.

Hehe, it's actually the -25% xp bonus that totally blows me away. I thought that maybe Aggressive was to become the "startup experience king" and Charismatic become the "experience clocker upper" (and Protective the "free promoter").

[SebP]

Originally posted by Randolph


Apparently not, because that isn’t what “exponential” means. An exponential function would be b^x, where b is constant (usually this will be the constant e), and x is increasing; if you work this out it is going to increase a lot faster then “doubling each time.” What your talking about is x^2 where x is increasing, this would be a quadratic function.

This is sorta off-topic now, but you got your maths wrong, mr. genius. Doubling each time x is increased by 1 results to 2^x, not x^2. Thus, exponential as you called it yourself.

Originally posted by Watiggi
Whoa! Mr Bee has just said that you get the first GG at 20xp and then the next comes at 40xp, 60xp, 80xp, etc!

That is quite regular....cool

Wow, that is a fast rate and would mean that imperialistic IS strong. Who's Mr Bee though?

[Watiggi]

Wow, that is a fast rate and would mean that imperialistic IS strong. Who's Mr Bee though?

Oops. Mr Bee is the guy who writes the IGN previews (ie, the one with the old leader trait changes) and the latest scenario preview.

Yeah, it does look like Imperialistic is strong. Good. Now I don't feel to blown away with the strengths of Protective and Charismatic.

...it is a pitty though that the Aggressive trait doesn't quick build the Stables though. It doesn't feel complete without it being able to do that. But ah well.

[SebP]

I liked expansive before though i only came to like it a few weeks ago, and it does help in the early game expansion phase if used right, cheap granaries allow for faster poprushing of settlers (not by much though) and +3 health means you can relentlessly chop forests. It was still a weaker trait so it's good to see it strengthened.
Sadly, expansive + financial, my new favorite, is no more. Also, most leaders with horse UUs (Cyrus, Genghis) are not anymore expansive. Isabella still is though and it is again good to see her strengthened.

[Watiggi]

Expansive was good on floodplains. Poprushing a Keshik rush is pretty cool. I guess I wont be doing that so much now. I tell ya though, Aggressive/Imperialistic is looking really interesting. Even if the Ger isn't built quickly. That's 90 hammers for a city to build the Barracks and Ger - 7xp Keshiks. Hmmm. I wonder if that counts towards a GG? Probably not. Hopefully Vassalage and Theocracy still have +2 xp so that the Keshiks can be made with 3 promotions. But now that the GG's are more regular than I antisipated, it allows for more flexible decision making for using the GG's.