IGN has ALL the info on ALL the new Civs! UUs, UBs first look at Wang Kon and Mehmed

[Common Sensei]

Originally posted by Arrian


Note the str5. It's still good, but I don't think it's a total monster.

-Arrian

Mobile Axemen.

[SebP]

Originally posted by Simplicity
Carthage is going to be a MONSTER though. Numidian cavalry will be able to hold their own against spearmen (+50% vs. melee). With free flanking, they're one promotion away from Navigation 1, which will allow them to move, pillage, move. From barracks cities, it's just one more step to Navigation 2, which lets them move, pillage, move, pillage!

Wow. I haven't been using many cavalry units, nor the flanking promotion so i believed you there for a second. I tried it out though, and am happy to herewith announce: It is in fact NOT possible to have navigation on cavalry units

can't wait to try out the janissaries. Useful musketmen finally

[Autotropx Sox]

you can stay in the hills and be quite confident of not being knocked down easily.

I rarely find cities with more than one hill adjacent to it.

Mobile Axemen

Which can be countered by spearmen?

[Solver]

Spi/Cha isn't a warmonger leader. It's simply a damn good leader.

Guerilla I gives a hill defense bonus. Hence, Gallic Swordsmen are going to be pretty damn tough to knock off of hills, even for Axemen.

[Simplicity]

Mobile axemen doesn't even begin to cover it.
Cannibal axemen with 2-3 times the movement.
Why cannibal? Because these axemen EAT other axemen. +50 vs. melee, but even better... They AREN'T melee units. So, a NC vs. an axeman:
Axeman vs. Axeman: 7.5 vs. 7.5
NC vs. Axeman: 7.5 vs. 5 (plus, they can retreat)

They're super-pillagers, axeman counters (GOOD. Axemen were too strong anyways), ultra-mobile, and to top it off, I'm guessing they're immune to first strikes, so they won't be terrible against archers either.

[Common Sensei]

Originally posted by SebP



Wow. I haven't been using many cavalry units, nor the flanking promotion so i believed you there for a second. I tried it out though, and am happy to herewith announce: It is in fact NOT possible to have navigation on cavalry units

can't wait to try out the janissaries. Useful musketmen finally

He was apparently referencing CivFanatics' Promotions page, where Flanking leads to Navigation.

Mobility is the promotion he's thinking of, which comes off of Flanking II. So at Promotion Level 3, (which is 4 exp for Brennus with Charismatic, I believe) they can do what he was talking about.

[Simplicity]

Originally posted by SebP



Wow. I haven't been using many cavalry units, nor the flanking promotion so i believed you there for a second. I tried it out though, and am happy to herewith announce: It is in fact NOT possible to have navigation on cavalry units

can't wait to try out the janissaries. Useful musketmen finally

Ah... that's only naval... My bad. I only ever used to choose flanking on my boats. :-)

[Solver]

I rarely find cities with more than one hill adjacent to it.

A civ's first or second city will often have several hills. Not necessarily all adjacent to the city, but maybe one adjacent, and then two more north, for example. Then they make a very nice approach route.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Simplicity
I like the new civs because they all lead toward interesting strategies.

This is a good point. Firaxis has done a marvelous job of using the UBs to make Civs even more distinct. Bravo!

[Common Sensei]

Originally posted by Autotropx Sox

you can stay in the hills and be quite confident of not being knocked down easily.

I rarely find cities with more than one hill adjacent to it.

Mobile Axemen

Which can be countered by spearmen?

Sort of, but they get +50% against Melee, so they won't get eaten alive as badly as Horse Archers would.

[Autotropx Sox]

NC vs. Spearmen: 7.5 vs. 8.0 (not counting terrain defence)

Seriously, they are not monsters

[Simplicity]

Originally posted by Common Sensei


He was apparently referencing CivFanatics' Promotions page, where Flanking leads to Navigation.

Mobility is the promotion he's thinking of, which comes off of Flanking II. So at Promotion Level 3, (which is 4 exp for Brennus with Charismatic, I believe) they can do what he was talking about.

Mobility will only reduce terrain movement penalties. They'll be good for invading enemy territory (since you can't use the roads), or you could give them more flanking... But they won't be able to pillage twice.
That's probably a good thing...

[Common Sensei]

Originally posted by Autotropx Sox
NC vs. Spearmen: 7.5 vs. 8.0 (not counting terrain defence)

Seriously, they are not monsters

Which is a good thing.

[Simplicity]

Originally posted by Autotropx Sox
NC vs. Spearmen: 7.5 vs. 8.0 (not counting terrain defence)

Seriously, they are not monsters

If you're counting terrain defence, you're doing something foolish anyways. You wouldn't be attacking the only counter (barely) for your horses with your horses. Let them sit there and come to you while you chew up their terrain improvements.

7.5 vs 8.0 is not a big difference. 1/16 chance of losing each "round"...

If you really wanted to fight spearmen with only these guys, you could because they have a bigger base str, if you put a +melee (after combat 1) promotion on this guy... you've completely eliminated the counter (even if spearmen go with +mounted... which comes after combat 2!).

[Autotropx Sox]

7.5 vs 8.0 is not a big difference.

Well, when I can make 1.8 spearmen for ever NM you make, I think the difference becomes multiplied in my favor.

you've completely eliminated the counter

Rofl...you can get Shock from green units made in a city with barracks that early in the game without being aggressive?

EDIT: upon further viewing, I discovered that Charismatic gives a promotion cost reduction of 25%, so, yes, a charismatic leader could get Shock right after a Star....something I feel is unfair and should be reduced to 10% or 15%.