How do you get "hundreds" of beakers per turn?

[NFIH]

In various posts I see people talking about how they get a single city to generate several hundred (the last one I read said 600) beakers per turn.

I can't begin to fathom how this is done given that science production is at root a function of commerce production and I don't see how a single city can generate that much commerce. I've never been anywhere close to this.

So how is it done? By what point in the game (tech-wise) does a specialized science city have 500+ beakers per turn?

Whoever you people are, I bow down before you!

[Smellycowsquid]

Try a super Science city, make sure it has lots of commerce, and (I think)food so you can have science specalists, make your science Wonders(Oxford) and stuff like that, late in the game, it is possible to have alot of science...But as I usually say, wait for someone with a lil' more experience...

[billones]

Hey, let's make a commerce city!

Pop 15.

5 grassland Towns
2 grassland farms
2 plains farms
2 flood plain
1 windmill hill
1 resource with only 2 food on it

With two specialists, Scientists naturally

(The math there adds up on food, right?)

Each town kicks out 5 commerce. Another 2 from the flood plains. Another 2 from the windmill. Lets say 2 from the resource. Total of 31 base commerce. Three trade routes for another 15 commerce. That's 46 commerce. Slider at 90% tech gives us 41 beakers. Two scientists gives us 6 more beakers. That's 47 beakers.

Library, University, Observatory and Laboratory give us
+150%, putting us at 117 beakers.

That's a generic commerce city. Now, let's say this was our Tech city. That means an Academy (+50%), Oxford University (+100%) another 6 settled Great Scientists (+30 beakers), and lets throw in the civics that give us 1 bonus specialist and +3 beakers per specialist.

Now we're still at 41 base beakers, but adding 18 for specialists and 30 for Great Scientists means 79 base and +300% for 315 beakers.

Want to go up from there? Upping the population is a nice start. Biology adds food, so more specialists and more beakers. Coastal areas generate more commerce than plains farms. Multiple specials are always nice. Getting to 500+ in your Tech city is certainly doable.

(Yes, there are several errors in the above. But the rough counts are right.)

[Quillan]

Well, for ultimate use, what you need is a combination of things. First, you need a city with a huge (and I do mean HUGE) base commerce production. Ideal is a mix of floodplains around a river or rivers and coastal with seafood resources (I know it's unlikely you'll get all this, but this is probably the best setup I can think of). Build cottages on the floodplains and fishing boats on the seafood resources. Build a harbor to increase sea trade. Cottage any other flatland you have, as long as you generate enough food to work it. Windmill the hills. Any excess population you have, turn them into science specialists. You definitely want (and need) a Library, University, Observatory and Laboratory there (as technological progress allows). Build an Academy there with your first great scientist. Build the Great Library there if you can. Run Caste System for extra scientists above the max the improvements allow, if necessary. Build Oxford in the city once you have enough universities to allow it. Everything is cumulative. It eventually adds up.

Personally, I've never gotten to 500. About 300 is the best I've been able to do, but I never specialize purely in science either.

[Metaliturtle]

if you run it as a GPPump as well, and keep having the GP science specialists move into the city this goes up a lot faster, I believe their beakers get multiplied from the base as well.

[Jaybe]

billones neglected to mention city trade:
How many trade routes; coastal city with harbor with 4-5 routes @8-10+ trade per route.

Personally, I don't recall ever having as much as 500 science in a city, but approaching 300 in a non-coastal city with Oxford is easy.

[Ijuin]

Originally posted by billones
another 6 settled Great Scientists (+30 beakers), and lets throw in the civics that give us 1 bonus specialist and +3 beakers per specialist.

Great Scientists are really more usefully spent building Academies in your OTHER science cities. :P

That said, you forgot about Free Speech, which gives you an extra two commerce in each Town, so base commerce is 56, not 46. :P

Oh, and don't forget, if you are running Bureaucracy, you won't get the +2 commerce for Towns from Free Speech, but you WILL get +50% to your base commerce in your capital city (which is why I often make my capital into my big Science city by building Oxford there).

[Smellycowsquid]

Originally posted by Metaliturtle
if you run it as a GPPump as well,

I have been experimenting with this...It sure does add up!

[cynyck]

I have never hit 600, but have eclipsed 500 more than once and all in landlocked cities. In addition to the above, Representation gives you 3 beakers for *every* specialist whether they are scientists or not, Free Religion gives you a 10% bonus in every city, Monastaries give a 10% bonus each, Financial trait gives you +1 for each town, Great Library gives you 2 free settled scientists. Later in the game Monastaries are obsoleted but then there are additional trade routes with certain techs (corporation I think?) and with certain buildings (airport).

I have regularly had four religions in my capital with four Monastaries which adds +40%, and if a river runs through, there is an additional +1 commerce per riverside tile. Yeah, this can all really add up.

[Blake]

Yeah, others have said it.
Giant coastal city (harbor) for massive trade routes.
Plenty of developed cottages and free speech.
Philosophical (and/or pacifism) and an insane number of settled great people.

350% multipliers.

You can actually get nearly 90 raw commerce in trade routes alone. with the multipliers you're already halfway there.

[cynyck]

I checked a recent save. Playing Cathy (Financial) and researching computers, so it was late in the game. Science was 542 in the capital.

I had a river zig-zaging through the capital and a bunch of flood plains (Fractal map). 4 trade routes at 5 each; 8 towns on rivers (7 each); 1 town not on the river (6); one incense (7); 4 production tiles on the river (4); the center tile is on the river (1); and 8 for the palace equals 102 base commerce. This was modified with beauracracy (x 1.5) to 153.

I was at 90% reasearch (137 beakers); I had two GEs and was running Representation, (6 beakers); I was running Research and was getting 19 beakers for hammers for a total of 162 beakers without modifiers.

Monastaries were obsolete. I had an Acadamy (50%), Library (25%), University (25%), and Observatory (25%), had built Oxford University (100%), and was running Free Religion (10%) for a total of 235% in modifiers. 162 x 2.35 = 381; add this to the 162 (or just multiply 162 by 3.35) for a total of 542.

This was without a laboratory which I built after finishing researching computers, which ups the modifiers to 260%, which ups the science to 583.

I am sure I could have run 600 beakers in this city after getting computers because by changing the GEs to GSs, and adding two GSs (I had a big food surplus and actually tried this with the save), I got 579b without the laboratory. I calculate the lab would then have put me at 630 research. But, I do not have a later save.

[rjmatsleepers]

Here is an example from the most recent space ship comparison game which illustrates most of the things mentioned above. The save is taken from the construction phase, so you'll need to tweak it a bit to see the full research potential. If you switch to 100% science, and in Madrid you switch the tiles producing no food and less than 1 commerce to scientists (and make the engineer a scientist as well), you get 723 beakers per turn.

This is not excessive for an SSC. Isabella is not the best leader for high commerce, and the site for the SSC has too many hills and not enough flood plains. A good leader in a good location will easily produce over 800 beakers. I don't think I've ever managed over a 1,000, but I suspect it's doable.

RJM

[solo]

Here's London, a capital getting over 1000 beakers per turn. It's the addition of science specialists that provides more than half the total. Also, do not forget to use Representation and Free Religion.

[Arrian]

Bureacracy would be a key part of this too, wouldn't it (+50% commerce)?

I've had capital cities that pumped out several hundred beakers/turn (never 1000, wow). Maybe around 500/turn (Mali, coastal start).

-Arrian

[Blake]

Hmm lets try a theoretical maximum....

70 from trade
160 from Cottages (20 tiles x 8 per tile)
+10 from city tile.
=240 raw commerce.
x1.5 Bureaucracy = 360

Income from specailists:
I think it's reasonable to expect that 20 Great Scientists could be settled. Might be possible to get as high as 30, but there are usually chaff GP's.

20 x 9 = 180

Total raw science = 540

Multipliers:
Library, univ, obs, lab, academy, oxfords = 350%


Total = 1890.


So with a little (well a lot) of effort one could have a single city packing over 2000 beakers/turn.