How do you get "hundreds" of beakers per turn?

[Blake]

Hereditary rule is often more useful than representation, and a grassland cottage is better than a rep specialist. The pyramids are far from needed.
They are very nice to capture though.

[Mr Justice]

i think ive only ever built pyramids once.
lol i remember it now, was my first couple of games or so and i thought way hey, get access to all civics!
by was i disappointed when it was only the rightmost column of civics which were opened. i guess i never got over the dissapointment and never built it since.

i usually get a religion or two which helps happiness, and work around the happy cap with reasources or such.

[Beatie]

I think if you manage to get the borderslingshot, and get Burocracy, and you build the piramids, and use the reprenstation civic you have a big advantage on the other civ's. You get 3 beakers for each specialist, and also 50% hammers, and 50% gold in you capital city! So you proberly can build most of the other wonders as well!


btw, borderslingshot: get code of law, build the oracle, and choose Civil Service

It's a old topic, I know but now my playing have improved I think I have a right to speak about it now

[Diadem]

Just to brag: Over 1100 science in a single city!

[rjmatsleepers]

Diadem's city is an interesting and potentially instructive result. But I'm having some difficulty making the numbers add up. Let me try

Commerce = 41 (assuming free religion)
+ 50% for Bureaucracy = 61

6 scientists = 36 (assuming representation)
1 super scientist = 9
1 super artist = 6
4 other super specialists = 12

Total research from specialists = 63

Production = 36
Buildings, power and resources make that 108

Research from hammers = 54

Total is 54 + 63 +61 = 178

Buildings (library, university, observatory, laboratory, academy, Oxford) = 250%

Total = 623

I'm therefore missing about 500 beakers. Are there around 16 super scientists that don't show on the screen shot? Am I missing some other source of beakers?

RJM

[Blake]

Indeed. A mouseover on the great people would give a breakdown of the actual numbers.
In a typical OCC you'll generate 15-20 great people.

[rjmatsleepers]

Just for fun

[IMG][/IMG]

I decided to see how many beakers I could get to - settler level with Lizzie. I stopped at 1170. This can easily be beaten since I failed to settle a couple of GPs in London and anyone with the patience can wait for more GPs.

RJM

[Diadem]

Well my screenshot is from an Immortal OCC game. High-sea level cold climate Island game without any additional islands. I don't think it's really possible to win OCC on more normal map settings unless you have extreme luck with your starting position

The real beauty of the screenshot, imho, is that this super city outputs 1136 science and 126 gold with a grand total of 5 commerce generated within its fat cross.

The numbers add up. There are a lot of super specialists in that city. In warlords it only shows on of each type if you have more than fit on the bar, that's why you only see one great scientists. There are plenty more. Though most are actually great engineers. They yield slightly less science, but their production more than compensates for that. A very high production is very important in OCC. In that city there are: 3 great prophets, 5 great artists, 3 great scientists, 2 great merchants and 13 great engineers. Oh, and 2 military instructors. Too many great artists, I got a streak of bad luck there.

The total science modifier is 260%, there's an additional 10% from free religion (which I switched to only for the screenie, of course, you normally run pacifism).

The city outputs almost 300 hammers. The base output is already huge because of all those great engineers, but this is further modified by 250% (50% from buildings, 50% from power, 100% from ironworks and 50% from capital). Hammer-built science is added directly to your science total, though, it isn't modified by your science multipliers. Still it's a huge contribution.

I'll try and start a settler-difficulty game to see if I can make it over 2000 science

[rjmatsleepers]

Ah! I forgot about the hammers from GEs and from bureaucracy.

I've never tried an "OCC". That would explain why the city looks rather different from my usual capital!

RJM

[Beatie]

Diadem: I've noticed you put your sience slider to 100%! Did you put a number of your city's on gold production? To still get enough gold to pay your mainance costs?

[Thedrin]

I believe its a one city challenge. The great merchants and gold bonuses are probably covering the cost of maintenance for that one city.

[johnmcd]

In a culture win game I recently had a science city that was doing over 200 even with science set to 0%

[Calvin Vu]

Originally posted by Blake
Hmm lets try a theoretical maximum....

70 from trade
160 from Cottages (20 tiles x 8 per tile)
+10 from city tile.
=240 raw commerce.
x1.5 Bureaucracy = 360

I don't think you can get 8 gold per tile unless you run Free Speech but that will exclude Bureaucracy.

In fact, if we only look at the output of the SSC alone, not counting other cities, then Bureaucracy is always a better choice than Free Speech. Free Speech brings gold from Town squares from 6 to 8 (or 33%) for financial civs and from 5 to 7 (or 40%) for non-financial civs. However, Bureaucracy brings the whole commerce up 50% for the capital for ALL squares.

So, no matter what kind of capital you have, Bureaucracy always beats Free Speech. In fact, since I tend to load my capital with GPs as a SSC, staying with Bureaucracy usually gives a better science output than switching to Free Speech (at least with vanilla, I haven't noticed what happens with Warlords and whether there has been any changes in the civ benefits). That might be because I tend to prefer watermills than Towns whenever possible also so I can crank out troops, spaceship parts, buildings, etc. And I also tend to play financial civs which makes the percentage benefit of Free Speech less than for non-financial .

[johnmcd]

You assume the SSC is the capital, which it often will be but not always.

[Calvin Vu]

Originally posted by johnmcd
You assume the SSC is the capital, which it often will be but not always.

Of course. However, it'd better be if you want to take advantage of the Bureaucracy civics . I will move my capital to my SSC if I can find a much better site for my SSC other than the capital. This has to be pretty early in the game, of course, before all the investment is put into the bad capital as a SSC.