2K Games Announces Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Warlords.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by CyberShy
They should focus on totally new concepts

Fans can mod those in as well... and often the quality of those is not inferior to what Firaxis can come up with (they have a lot of fans involved in design after all). With artwork however, Firaxis work is guaranteed to be of a very high standard, which for fan art isn't usually the case (there are some exceptions, but not too many).

Of course I wanna see some new concepts as well, but I think art work (leaders, units, buildings, etc) is in the long run for the modding community much more important.

[Nacht]

Originally posted by Locutus
Fans can mod those in as well...

Yes with the SDK

[Vince278]

Just in time for ApolyCon?

[Robert]

Originally posted by Locutus


Fans can mod those in as well... and often the quality of those is not inferior to what Firaxis can come up with

I wonder if fans can mod vasal states or 'continue on SMAC' 'mods'.
Besides that, new leaders do not add anything to the game. It's just more of the same.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by CyberShy
I wonder if fans can mod vasal states or 'continue on SMAC' 'mods'.

Ignoring the AI, I could whip both up within a day I reckon -- even with just Python. Especially continue on SMAC is easy peasy. Just kill the map and load a new one. With the SDK soon out, there's very little fans can't do that Firaxis can.

[Robert]

Of course fans could make it easy to clean the map and make a new one, but can they make it so that you can both manage AC and Earth together?

And of course will the fans be able to do 'everything', but will much happen? Of course that will happen, within years, but it'll all be limited.

I think such an SDK is a nice feature, but the real new concepts will have to come from Firaxis.
In the end 95% of the fan input will be scenarios, units, civs, civics, religions and small python mods.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Of course fans could make it easy to clean the map and make a new one, but can they make it so that you can both manage AC and Earth together?

With the SDK that should be a piece of cake, if a bit of work.

I think such an SDK is a nice feature, but the real new concepts will have to come from Firaxis.
In the end 95% of the fan input will be scenarios, units, civs, civics, religions and small python mods.

Try some CtP mods, then come back and say that again (and none of those even use the source code -- all XML/Python equivalents). I can particularly recommend Ages of Man, which is widely considered an unofficial sequel, rather than a mod.

You're still stuck in Civ3 mentality. Have you even tried some of the existing Civ4 mods? Concepts like Caravans, Mercenaries, Real Forts, revamped Culture model and Terraforming, Religious Victory, Great Generals (not unlike Firaxis' Warlord, presumably!), Random Events and Unit Sandbox (sort of a Unit Workshop) are just some of the new ideas that Civ4 modders have come up with that would not be out of place in an XP (I've seen several fan concepts (not necessarily these) that will also be in Warlords -- yes I know largely what will be in Warlords and no I'm not telling you ), and this is just the tip of the iceberg of what we'll see in months and years to come. The Civ4 community is already moving a lot faster than the CtP2 community was in its heyday.

[Robert]

I know that it'll happen.
I know AoM, I've downloaded it, installed it, but it wouldn't run because CtPII doesn't run on my system.

I know about the mod ideas.
But we all know as well that things like AoM ARE very special. It's not that I say that the mods won't be there and won't be good.

It's just that I prefer Firaxis to come with new concepts in civ4:W since it's not as easy for the mod community to come with these. I care more for new concepts then for new civs.
Besides that, if Firaxis releases new concepts, we'll much easier be able to play them online against each other.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by CyberShy
But we all know as well that things like AoM ARE very special.

Not really. It's a continuation of Cradle, which is a counter-movement to MedMod, they all do similar things. Throw in things like World At War, Age of Man (not the same as Ages confusingly enough), Space Mod, History of the World, etc you got quite a few major gameplay-altering mods, especially for a community that beyond the first 6 weeks after release of the game never had more than ~20 regular members at a time (usually not more than 10).

Thinking of what a community the size of this one (including CFC and other sites) can accomplish in the same amount of time CtP2 has had makes my head explode... in a good way.

It's just that I prefer Firaxis to come with new concepts in civ4:W since it's not as easy for the mod community to come with these. I care more for new concepts then for new civs.
Besides that, if Firaxis releases new concepts, we'll much easier be able to play them online against each other.

Sure, nothing wrong with that, but that's not what you said. You said the fans are not able to come with new concepts, or not on the same level that Firaxis can. That's complete nonsense, it has been proven false already many times over, both for Civ4 and other games. Call to Power and also other games (e.g. in the FPS genre Counterstrike -- to think completely out of the box for a moment) have shown that fans (given enough time) generally make better games than professional designers, because, contrary to professionals, they have infinite time and resources and don't cost any money.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that Firaxis should add new innovations to the XP, but those will not be superior to fan-made mods, just different (and 'official', which is indeed useful for MP and tournies and stuff).

As Soren always says, there are a million ways to make a good Civ game, we only get to make one. Well, the fans get to make the other 999,999...

[Robert]

You said the fans are not able to come with new concepts, or not on the same level that Firaxis can. That's complete nonsense

Ok, I'll give in.
You proved me wrong with the AoM and CtPII community.
I'll eagerly wait for the fanmods! And perhahps I'll find time to create some good stuff in the future myself as well.

[proviisori]

Stalin Vassal states

[Locutus]

Originally posted by CyberShy
I'll eagerly wait for the fanmods! And perhahps I'll find time to create some good stuff in the future myself as well.

You and me both Well, except that I know I will create some good stuff in the future, I'm working on some exciting things right now (and yes, that includes some big concepts AFAIK never before seen in a Civ game )

[Robert]

Originally posted by Locutus
I'm working on some exciting things right now (and yes, that includes some big concepts AFAIK never before seen in a Civ game )

Like civ turning into a FPS when a battle occurs

[Nikolai]

Vassal states.
More Civ1 stuff like Stalin and Ramses.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Like civ turning into a FPS when a battle occurs

I'd be happy with some kind of tactical combat screen.

(Bring back "Civ"-il Wars! )