Spaceship comparison game

[mdbill]

Since I'm heading to Constitution so early, I guess that means I could pick up Corporation and Free Market. That knocks out the GLighthouse anyway.

[mdbill]

Oh yea, saved game.

[rjmatsleepers]

I haven't looked at the save yet, but mdbill's effort sounds very good. 3 GPs already!

I looked at the other posted saves yesterday. All of them have something going for them; it's not easy to find a basis for choosing. I suspect the key feature will be access to resources - particularly iron. This probably outweighs beakers, techs, religions, etc.

One thing I found quite interesting was the AI scores, which vary a lot more than I would have expected. Presumably this is mainly down to the extent to which they have gained techs by trading. Hence, in Solo's save, the AI scores are higher because he has done the most tech trading.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli
I look forward to seeing MDBill and uberfish's starts.

Having looked at these starts, I'd like go with either of them. Mine, solo's and rjm's are riffs on the same theme, but the above two are quite different, especially uberfish's. If it comes to a vote then I'd like to try uberfish's.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Swiss Pauli


Having looked at these starts, I'd like go with either of them. Mine, solo's and rjm's are riffs on the same theme, but the above two are quite different, especially uberfish's. If it comes to a vote then I'd like to try uberfish's.

I've now looked at mdbill's efort and it is particularly impressive. Whichever we decide to go for, I'll certainly try replaying to AD1 using his approach and see where I get to. And as you say, Uberfish's religions certainly make it different.

I wonder whether we are expecting anyone else to post a save.

RJM at Sleeper's

[solo]

So far, I also give the edge to mdbill, who has the most useful techs so far. Although I may get to Education first, he has Philosophy and Metal Casting, which I lack. His beaker count so far is also the best. Although Cordoba may be placed too close to the capital (sharing 5 tiles with it), it has allowed him to get off to the fastest start and makes early use of the commerce from the gems there. Having gems appear on the hill near Barecelona also gave a nice boost, along with the early Colossus. Nice job!

As for which start to continue with, might I suggest the following groundrules for continuing our game(s):

1) Allow players a week to complete a set of turns. Having a deadline helps keep things moving and eliminates doubt as to who is participating and when players should continue. This game started on 4/24, so giving a week would make the deadline for the 1 AD turnset May 1st.

2) Although we started off this game with the idea of "best ball", I think our main purpose is to explore the variety of approaches in our common quest to optimize the speed of completing SS games. With that in mind, I would say that players should be given the option to continue the next turn set using the 1 AD result that they prefer to use. Doing this also gives faster players a chance to continue playing the game, should they desire to continue with a particular result before waiting for all results to be posted.

3) Players who complete their turn sets early may want to replay the set. For example, RJM is replaying this set from the start, looking to make improvements, and may end up with a 1 AD result he would like to continue the rest of the game with. Another example might be the desire of players to play the next set twice: first, using the result they judge to be the best; and afterwards using another intriguing result that they want to explore further.

So, if these rules are agreeable to the majority, then the deadline for the 1 AD turn set will be May 1st, which is when players can begin their next set, and also when we will start accepting results for that set.

How does 1000 AD sound as the next check point, with a deadline a week later, on May 8th, for comparing our next set of results?

[mdbill]

Sounding good solo. Here's another thought. 1 AD was just arbitrary. It might be better to continue at a "decision point". For example, right at the point I had to decide to go Philosophy or choose Paper for early Edu. Switching to a religion and taking on Pacifism are major decisions. Religion can drasticly affect relations and cause wars. It'd be nice for comparison reasons to see how someone would do if they race to Education from CS.

In best shot (golf), I believe you can't take the same person's shot twice in a row. So if you take my start for example, I'd play along, but you can't take my next leg. Maybe we don't want to have that limitation if we're just looking for the fastest space race.

[mdbill]

Another thought. Come up with some attack plans and then have people say which one they want to try (so we get more varied plans). I'd like to see someone lay down 10 cities by 1 AD and see how that looks. We are Expansive after all. I'd normally like to see a warmonger approach too, but we are a little too far from the others. Certainly for the next leg someone should go agressive although Cathy is closest and she's a good tech trader (for me anyway).

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by mdbill
Another thought. Come up with some attack plans and then have people say which one they want to try (so we get more varied plans). I'd like to see someone lay down 10 cities by 1 AD and see how that looks. We are Expansive after all. I'd normally like to see a warmonger approach too, but we are a little too far from the others. Certainly for the next leg someone should go agressive although Cathy is closest and she's a good tech trader (for me anyway).

I'd be interested in seeing the result of 10 cities by AD 1; it sounds a bit too much to me, but I expect someone can prove me wrong.

BTW, I had a go at following your approach, but I found I need a few more details. Particularly the order you researched techs and some more on what you built when. I think luck may enter into it - I never managed to get a GE.

I'm comfortable with Solo's suggestions and I don't think it matters if we choose the same person's save twice in a row. The main thing is to explore different ideas.

RJM at Sleeper's

[mdbill]

I did Poly (should probably do Med. instead). Then Bronze -> Priest. Build the Oracle while getting wheel -> Pottery. Free Metal Casting. Build a temple and assign a Prophet. While waiting for the GP get writing -> CoL -> Med. and complete a forge. Ater the GP, stop working the Priest and work an Engineer. I think I assigned a scientist too. It makes the GP come faster and getting an Academy is not bad. I just did NOT want another Prophet. Finish CS. Wasn't sure whether to Alphabet now. Didn't know if Cathy was gonna be a good trader. Turns out see was, so it's probably the right choice. Get all the early techs free and get Literature in case you get that GE.

The GE plan was really for Pyramids, but those were taken already. you might be better of skipping the whole idea and hook up Marble instead. Then just chop the GL after you get Math for free.

I'd probably try to sneak Sailing in early and get a lighthouse finished by the time Alphabet comes along. Then you get Masonry for free and have a shot at the GLighthouse.

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by mdbill
Another thought. Come up with some attack plans and then have people say which one they want to try (so we get more varied plans). I'd like to see someone lay down 10 cities by 1 AD and see how that looks. We are Expansive after all. I'd normally like to see a warmonger approach too, but we are a little too far from the others. Certainly for the next leg someone should go agressive although Cathy is closest and she's a good tech trader (for me anyway).

Generally, I like a bit of conquest but this map is not so suitable. However, I think we need to see how the land lies (i.e. after trading World Maps) before strategic objectives can be identified, whichever start we go with first.

[rjmatsleepers]

I'll have another try at mdbill's approach later today. My best result to date is combining the slingshot with a cottage spam. This gives me just under 100 beakers at AD 1.

I went for the 2 early religions and built 2 temples and the assigned 2 priests. I used my Great Prophet to learn CoL and built the Oracle in my second city, choosing Civil Service. Once I completed my library, 2 scientists (eventually) got me an academy.

After learning writing, I went for roads and pottery (for the cottages) and then mining and BW (to clear the forest to build them on). Then I went for Alphabet and Literature, enabling me to complete the GL just before AD1, with the aid of those workers building cottages.

Finally, I went for sailing (followed by paper and education) Discovering Sailing was far too late to find the AI and conduct tech trading, but at least I secured the sw tip of the island. (I think; my settler lands next turn.)

The lack of tech trading means delaying a lot of early, but off-path techs. But early sailing and building a galley delays other things, which in my attempts means fewer beakers. I suspect most of the off-path techs (I mean the really useless ones like agriculture and animal husbandry ) will be relatively easy to acquire in trading. And the fortunate thing about this start is that there are no major problems with health or food.

RJM at Sleeper's

[solo]

mdbill,

I also regret not going for the Great Lighthouse, which was really useful here.

I like your idea of using decision points, but we are unlikely to face the same decisions at the same times with our various approaches. Using a date is the best way to evaluate overall progress when stopping peridodically to make comparisons, but I am open to the idea of allowing individual players to save their games at important "decision points" as they arise and then allowing replays from these points in order to evaluate each path.

RJM,

I agree it was very hard to decide how to prioritize early research and am still not sure which early strategy is best!

[mdbill]

Not sure if we allow "mulligans". To continue my golf analogy, a mulligan is a do-over. I played again to 1 AD with a pretty good result. I went for more cities. I currently have 8 and will have 10 in around more 10 turns.

I am only 5 turns from completing Education! I don't have Philosophy this time, but I do have currency and metal casting, calendar, monarchy, etc.

Best part: I have Oracle, G. Lighthouse, G. Library, and Colossus. (ok, Colossus will be done in 2 turns)

I also have an Academy in the capitol, but no other GP. They'll be popping out fast.

I've met everyone and circumnavigated.

No surprise gems this time though.

[rjmatsleepers]

I had another go at the slingshot / cottage spam. This time I improved things by pop rushing the Oracle in my 2nd city. Not a major improvement but worth doing.

As far as "mulligans" are concerned, I don't think there's any harm in posting them. This is an exploration of strategy, not a competition. The key is the extent to which improvements are based on prior knowledge. I won't post mine, since they all use knowledge of the map.

RJM at Sleeper's