I keep losing on prince

[Enigma_Nova]

And the best time to do wars is Early, get them out of the way, so that once they're over your Towns are safe from Pillage and you can build your way upwards.

[GeoModder]

Define "early"... it took me to the middle ages to simply prepare an adequate army to deal with Bella Donna, while at the same time keeping a tech/economic edge over her so I could afford my conquests.

[Enigma_Nova]

"Define Early":
Warriors if you're Incan,
Swordsmen if you're not.
You might be able to get Horse Archers in to bolster your attack once it's begun, though.

[Son of David]

The last game I won at Prince I did not fight wars until 1000AD, but thereafter (from knights through to tanks) I was never far from war. In Civ4, peace seems to be defined as that period when you build up your economy and are getting ready for another war. 'Peace as a means to war.'

I even sent transports full of marines off to attack AIs on the other, smaller continents because no matter an AI is 1/4 of the size of your Empire, and you've built all the economy and science improvements, they will catch up with you by the late game and start cranking out spaceship parts.

The only way I won that game at all was by building an Empire so massive that I could overcome the AI's bonuses! (It was an incredibly fun game though.)

[SpencerH]

From the comments on this (and other) thread it is ironic that the easiest way to win at CIV4 is to warmonger. That has always been true for the CIV-games despite the fact that CIV was not designed as a wargame and CIV is a crappy wargame (when played as one).

What is ironic here is that it was possible to win earlier versions of the game without being a warmonger. Rapid expansion, epitomized by ICS, allowed builders to be competitive throughout the game despite the AI cheats on very high levels. By limiting ICS-type play in CIV4 and by not providing an alternative strategy to the AI cheats, Firaxis have forced builders to be warmongers (or perhaps to micromanage to the nth degree) even at low levels. Neither of which choice is how I want to play this game.

[GeoModder]

This one time I tried to start early an early war (I was the Mongols, so made a nice gang of keshiks, axemen and spearmen) my adversary was relatively easy conquered (Peter of Russia) but then the economic malaise hit me (support of the new conquests), and for the rest of the game I had to struggle to keep up with the other civs on the main continent.

How do you guys deal with that? Markets seem still too far away in the early stage of game.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by SpencerH
From the comments on this (and other) thread it is ironic that the easiest way to win at CIV4 is to warmonger. That has always been true for the CIV-games despite the fact that CIV was not designed as a wargame and CIV is a crappy wargame (when played as one).

What is ironic here is that it was possible to win earlier versions of the game without being a warmonger. Rapid expansion, epitomized by ICS, allowed builders to be competitive throughout the game despite the AI cheats on very high levels. By limiting ICS-type play in CIV4 and by not providing an alternative strategy to the AI cheats, Firaxis have forced builders to be warmongers (or perhaps to micromanage to the nth degree) even at low levels. Neither of which choice is how I want to play this game.

Spencer,

I haven't found that I need to warmonger to win at Prince. It kinda depends on how close my neighbors are. Some games I have enough room to REX enough cities that I don't need to fight for more. In others, I feel boxed in and will then pick a fight (my last game - Egypt had to die).

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Crossfire
Pyramids are pretty easy to get without stone if you start right away with an industrious civ and dedicate the city to putting out hammers. I usually start this after my first settler in either of my first two cities depending on which has better hammer output. The Oracle is harder to get and sometimes I miss even with marble. When I get them both I am pretty set though as that gets me representation and civil service. Then I research alphabet (long before other AIs) and I can trade for those techs I skipped while picking another tech beeline to stay ahead.

If you can pull off an Oracle->CS, with Pyramids, and FOUR cities early you said, and then be ready to go and conquer someone straight away, that is seriously impressive on Prince.

Any chance you could play AU100-A and document it for us? There's a bunch of CS Slingshots recorded there but none like that.

[Crossfire]

I just finished a game on Prince last night as Louis on a regular, continents map. I beelined for bronze and chopped some settlers then beelined for Writing and then for Priest and used the Oracle to get the tech that gets you forges (at work and memory sucks). I had horses but no copper so I built chariots and took a size 2 and a size 3 barb city. At that point I had 5 cities. I built 2 more quick to finish off my territory and settled down to build. After getting alphabet I beelined for economics and then education for the free tech and the free GP. Later I beelined for Rocketry and then Fusion. My main competition (and it was close) was Mansa Musa who was to my south. We traded a lot and I kept Victoria in the game too by tech tradinng with her. I was first around the world and found a small empty continent (my only oil!) that I put 4 more cities on. I was attacked with only one small stack in the 1700s by Ceasar and it was easily reppelled. I never fought another war although I did keep Ceasar and Saladin at war with each other. I never could get Victoria and Mansa Musa to attack each other though. I won a spaceship victory in 1964.

At the end of the game my capitol was putting out over 600 beakers! I used spies to effectively deny Mansa Musa aluminum (which I feel was critical). I also saw a tactic I hadn't see before. At the end, when it was obvious that he was going to lose the tech war by about 2 techs, he turned all but about 3 citizens in a couple of his cities into specialists. The cities were starving but pumping massive hammers and beakers. I might have to use this in the future sometime! At any rate, I finished as Abraham Lincoln (my best yet) and was pretty happy with the game, although there is LOTS to improve on.

I was number 1 in all categories except military (consistently 4 - 6) until the end of the game when I ramped up to number 2 there. I finished 800 points ahead of Mansa Musa. I guess I need to move up a level. Considering CIV4 is my first ever CIV game I am pretty happy with my progress and I have this board to thank for all the great ideas.

[Russian_King]

i found this to be 100% true, im htinking of going to war with axemen early and capturing extra 2 or 3 cities so i can have a BIG civ! (more than 4 cities)
i usually play on standard with 7 players (6AIs)
the stronger of AIs get like 2 cities more than me, thats where i think i go wrong
but oh well onto my next game!

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Crossfire
After getting alphabet I beelined for economics and then education for the free tech and the free GP.

I thought Liberalism gave the free tech, Economics gave the free GP, and Education was a pre-requisite for both of them.

[Crossfire]

Like I said, my memory sucks, but you know which ones I mean. I have only been playing Civ for a month now and I can't remember the names of everything. Although I know where they are on the chart!

[Son of David]

Originally posted by GeoModder
This one time I tried to start early an early war (I was the Mongols, so made a nice gang of keshiks, axemen and spearmen) my adversary was relatively easy conquered (Peter of Russia) but then the economic malaise hit me (support of the new conquests), and for the rest of the game I had to struggle to keep up with the other civs on the main continent.

How do you guys deal with that? Markets seem still too far away in the early stage of game.

Each to their own! War is my FAVOURITE part of the game.

You should build universities and banks in-between wars, not *instead* of building troops.

Why do you think Firaxis have put so many units in the game? War is absolutely critical. If you can't outexpand the opponent, you have to conquer them.

Actually the bit of the game I dislike most is when I am having to build constantly just to keep up, especially in the modern age when power plants, supermarkets, airports and hundreds of other choices start to appear.

To hell with that! Give me stealth bombers, marines and tanks - I want to conquer the world!

[SpencerH]

Lost another one by 3 turns to Ganhdi ! No wars again and not so good starting position but still built 9 or 10 good sized cities. I'm really doubting the effectiveness of the space elevator.

[Crossfire]

In my last game that I just wrote up (see a few posts up), I didn't finish the space elevator until maybe 10 turns from winning! I had an empty city so I built it anyway. I would not beeline for it at all. There were several techs that I had not researched when I had the last one for the SS. These included flight and the one that gets jets, as well as modern tech1 and something else below refridgeration (maybe after radio). Mansa Musa did research these and lost because of it. If you aren't threatened with war, be more circumspect about what you build and research.

I would aim for:
- build apollo
- whatever gets you casings - 5 cities building them
- whatever gets you engines - 3 cities building them
- the other parts - one per city arranged according to hammer output

Also, be really careful about what techs you trade and with whom in the end game. In that all trades are in the AIs favor you don't want to be sling-shotting your opponent into the lead. I don't think I traded any techs in the last 80 turns.