Vel's Strategy Thread, Volume II

[tommynt]

I still play a stronger builder's game than anyone else I know

I m up to get challenged in ironman.
I have seen people moving faster as me - i know 2 guys being able to build much bigger stacks as rest of players i know. I might sometimes not fight too clever and lack of defence.
But i have very rarly seen some1 leading both gold and production in grpahs to me. I remember this ren game where i killed one fast and had to defend front allone vs 3 of other team after as all others were hit and slowed down that badly. U just need good production for that.

otherwise thx for your great additions ellestar and elledge - maybe some of apolyton guys have a look into civ4 lobby and join the ladder
- I might be even up to try a game with allways peace on

[Elledge]

I would be so into an always peace game Hope to play you ironman sometime. I haven't had a chance to play more than just one or two ladder epic sort of games yet so I might have just not played the real kings yet.

[matthew_mccabe]

On ancient start, the starting tile for ur firts city is pretty darned crucial. May be someone could make a list of which tiles give you more than the standard (one food, one hammer, one gold). I know a plains tile gives an extra hammer. Also, I planted on a plains wine tile yesterday, which gave me a handy extra gold.

Planting on marble or stone, makes a lot of sense to me. i presume it gives one extra hammer, but i'm not sure. It's also very handy for grabbing those early wonders. On industrious civ, one chop next to ur cap and u have stonehenge (on quick setting at least).

Tommy mentioned that if u plant on a forest tile u get a free 20 hammers for your first build. TBH, I've tried this and I'm sure I haven't found it to be the case. Therefore I avoid planting forest tiles so I can chop the forest for the production bonus later. What does anyone else think?

Perhaps someone could explain to me (or point me to another thread), exactly how the production gifted for chopping trees is devised. I know that it has something to do with the proximity to ur city. Having said that (I always play on quick setting), sometimes I can chop right next to my city and get 20 hammers and sometimes 2 tiles away and get 40 . I also have a feeling it'ssomething to do with whether the forest is within ur cultural boundaries or not.

Also, to go back to starting plant, I'm not sure how the yield from ur centre tile is devised. Standard is one of each commodity right. But why does plains hill give an xtra hammer. But (and I think this is right), planting next to fresh water doesnt give an xtra gold. Once again if someone could give a full explanation or point me to another thread it would be much appreciated.

Oh, and I'm with Tommy: JOIN THE LADDER. IT ROCKS. It really is quality fun and it is not such a beat em up slug fest as you think it is.

[matthew_mccabe]

i think there are nearly as many ladderites posting here as in the ladder forums!

[Elledge]

Originally posted by matthew_mccabe Tommy mentioned that if u plant on a forest tile u get a free 20 hammers for your first build. TBH, I've tried this and I'm sure I haven't found it to be the case. Therefore I avoid planting forest tiles so I can chop the forest for the production bonus later. What does anyone else think?

No way, you get the chop from planting? I'm sure I would have noticed that. I'll keep an eye out, but I didn't think that was true. I've avoided planting on forest tiles for the same reason.

Originally posted by matthew_mccabe Perhaps someone could explain to me (or point me to another thread), exactly how the production gifted for chopping trees is devised. I know that it has something to do with the proximity to ur city. Having said that (I always play on quick setting), sometimes I can chop right next to my city and get 20 hammers and sometimes 2 tiles away and get 40 . I also have a feeling it'ssomething to do with whether the forest is within ur cultural boundaries or not.

It's 20 hammers on quick speed if it's close enough to your city. The hammer amount goes up on longer gamespeeds, and it goes down if it's more than 4 tiles or so away from the city. If you have a forge, bureaucracy, resources, etc. modifying normal hammer production on whatever the hammers go toward, you get the extra production on forest chops too.

Originally posted by matthew_mccabe Also, to go back to starting plant, I'm not sure how the yield from ur centre tile is devised. Standard is one of each commodity right. But why does plains hill give an xtra hammer. But (and I think this is right), planting next to fresh water doesnt give an xtra gold. Once again if someone could give a full explanation or point me to another thread it would be much appreciated.

Pretty much the only useful bonus is plains hill for +1 hammer, so the starting square will give 2F/2H/1C. There are a few resources that will give a hammer or a gold but it's usually not warranted to plant on a resource, so I don't remember which ones they are.

[Notagoodname]

No Elledge im pretty sure that isnt what he meant .
He meant if you start on a forest but have grassland nearby then move off the forest. Otherwise you just waste the forest.

[matthew_mccabe]

"also if u start on wood and got same good grass/plain spot settle on it .. free 20 shields"

I think we've got a little confused here. Above is what Tommy said in an earlier post. It seems to me that he is saying that when u plant a city on a forest it gives 20 hammers (now 16 ). I find it hard to believe that Tommy would get something like this wrong, so may be he meant what me, elledge and anotagoodname all agree on:

move off that forest tile, and chop it later.

[Elledge]

Oh, right, I see that he meant to move off the forest so you could chop it later. I can see how it might have been misinterpreted though as "settle on the forest for a free 20 shields."

[matthew_mccabe]

a full page of ladder posts wooh

[Addled Platypus]

update

25 pages and counting

please stand by and play one more turn

[Ellestar]

Originally posted by matthew_mccabe
On ancient start, the starting tile for ur firts city is pretty darned crucial. May be someone could make a list of which tiles give you more than the standard (one food, one hammer, one gold). I know a plains tile gives an extra hammer. Also, I planted on a plains wine tile yesterday, which gave me a handy extra gold.

This article has a complete info you need.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=144029

Originally posted by matthew_mccabe Perhaps someone could explain to me (or point me to another thread), exactly how the production gifted for chopping trees is devised. I know that it has something to do with the proximity to ur city. Having said that (I always play on quick setting), sometimes I can chop right next to my city and get 20 hammers and sometimes 2 tiles away and get 40 . I also have a feeling it'ssomething to do with whether the forest is within ur cultural boundaries or not.

Hammers from chopping are multiplied by a production bonus. I'm sure that you got 40 when you chopped a wonder with access to resource.

Originally posted by matthew_mccabe
a full page of ladder posts wooh

Hehe we need a group here on Apolyton (The People's Army of the Ladder).

[Eggolas]

Monarch Strategy

This is my first Monarch game and I've decided to try a large, Pangaea map as Rome.

The Founding of Rome started off well, with a corn field and gold mine for the newly founded coastal city. However, trouble lurked to the north and east, as the Rapid expansion of Khan and Tokugawa began to hem in the Romans, limiting the nation to only three cities.

With no marble, Rome still completed the Oracle in 800BC, one turn after discovering the Code of Laws. The Religion promptly spread throughout the world like wildfire, with both Khan and Tokugawa converting with a few turns.

No bronze, but "friendly" brothers of the faith kept them at bay .... until IW discovered. Then as Rome began training newly formed Praetorians, Tokugawa sent a pillaging force against Rome. The Praetorians defeated the archers and then promptly captured Osaka, Tokyo and Kyoto. A brief peace ofr troop movement and catapult building and the cities of Satsuma, Edo and Kagoshima fell to combined arms.

Instead of pressing on to Khan, Rome decided to concentrate on infrastructure and some military units until, now, at 905AD, the prospect of expanding is being debated in the Senate.

The generals want to attack Mongolia before it becomes too strong. The senate wants to embroil Mongolia in a war against Napoleon and then hit it while its forces are in enemy territory. Casius wants to bring Peter to the table and have him carve up Mongolia with Rome, but there is a difference of opinion as Peter changed his religion and is no longer a brother in faith.

Oh yes, our local fortune teller believes we should quietly build our forces to a qualitative and numerical superiority and attack Mongolia when something called "Riflemen" and "cannon" are available. No one takes that stuff seriously though.

What do you generals think?

[Generaldoktor]

I don't download maps as it drives my firewall crazy. But from your description, you are ready for war and Mongolia is ripe. Monarch gives AI some tech advantages, but those will only get worse over time and right now, it appears they are not severe. At moderately higher tech, they can still be outperformed, militarily. You appear to be too small to remain a peaceful "builder" with all those warmonger types around you.

On the other hand, I wouldn't seek allies. You have iron and the Praetorians, you are coming off a period of consolidation, see if you can get all the goodies yourself. You might open up some new borders to seek new resources and if you double or triple your size, your neighbors will become much more respectful. Involving neighbors only invites them to get the benefits. Your war must be quick and efficient though, or said "neighbors" will join your enemy and become considerably less "neighborly."

[Eggolas]

Herr General,

It has fallen to me, your most loyal servant, to apprise you of the current situation.

The staff prepared a well-thought out battle plan, code named Operation Rubicon, to demolish the hordes of Khan to the North and West. However, as we were placing our assets into position, the little corpor .... er, general, from France decided to attack Kagoshima. We responded with our assets in place and then proceeded to take Angle to the West. It was in this city, that fierce battles took place, with an intermittent peace treaty that France used to place a large number of horse archers at the gates of our walls.

So many brave men threw themselves at our city walls, but the combined arms of Pikemen, knights, catapults, crossbows, longbows and macemen/Praetorians held fast and decimated the attacking forces.

Too much time passed and although we now have a qualitative lead with our new cavalry, I'm afraid that Khan has begun to amass longbows/pikemen in his cities.

Our real nemesis it turns out is none other than our good friend, Manny. His nation has surpassed our GNP by more than a 3:2 margin and I fear that our qualitative superiority will not survive for long.

Perhaps a lilmited war will work. Perhaps. Khan does not strike me as one who will surrender easily.

Your faithful servant,
Jules.

[Generaldoktor]

Well, such are the limits to taking others' advice

Manny=Mansa? He's always ahead. See if he'd like to join the war; my initial suggestion that you keep it all for yourself is out the window. See if you can do something to see in those Mongolian cities, spoiling attacks, clerics or something. (I guess its too early to beeline to espionage, think that should appear earlier in the game, Byzantines, Venetians, Arabs and Persians were all good at it; from the Middle Ages.) Find out what Genghis (Kublai?) really has before you sweat things too much.

Remember what I said that AI fights stupid, even on Monarch. If you can keep Mansa and Napoleon out of it, by diversion, bribery or late participation in your war, then a defensive posture will allow the Mongols to make mistakes, as any good AI will do. Oh, and build macemen, now that you've got them; and cats, lots of 'em, sooner or later you have to go back the other way. Even longbows have an enemy, believe in cities, that would be macemen.

Otherwise, you may have to restart, tweak the map and players a little bit to benefit yourself a little more and profit from what you learned in this one.