You know... I think the AI also just gets units for free too:

[kolpo]

Originally posted by Dale


Well, if the direct hammer cost of a unit has nothing to do with production then what does?

That's the whole point iUnitCostPercent does NOT influence the hammer cost of units. In both team games and when using spies is this obvious.

When I hover over a city with my mouse in a an enemy city with a spy in it, is unit build cost still the same. Same is true for the city view in team games.

Thought is is indeed formulated on a very confiusing way. I at first also believe it was hammer cost related until I tested it with both spiess and team games.

EDIT: to be 100% sure did I just double the value of iUnitCostPercent from 50% to 100% and warriors still costed 10 hammers! It is now very clear that iUnitCostPercent does NOT influence the hammer cost of units.

[kolpo]

Bhruic is right. I just did the following test:

I game me 16 units with the world builder while I got 2 free units. My total unit cost was 2 gold and I also noticed the following line the the Unit cost sub section of teh financial screen:"-2 handicap cost".

When I changed iUnitCostPercent to 100% and reloaded the same games was my unit cost suddenly 4 gold and was their no longer a handicap line in the sub section of the financial screen.

Conclusion: humans pay less unit supply for troops in their territorty but more for troops outside it(relative to the AI). So in regard to unit maintenance get's the AI an offensive advantage and the human a defensive one.

[Hobelhouse]

[SIZE=1]
Conclusion: humans pay less unit supply for troops in their territorty but more for troops outside it(relative to the AI). So in regard to unit maintenance get's the AI an offensive advantage and the human a defensive one.

But... why? Noble's supoosed to be an even playing field, for frig's sake.

[soulfire777]

They could also be using nationalism to draft 3 free units per turn.

[Saldrin]

To make things easier for you guys trying to see what's going on, if you have chipotle in the ini for cheats, just hit ctrl+z.

You can then see exactly what the AI is doing. You can even open up their cities and see what things are costing them.

[kolpo]

Originally posted by Hobelhouse


But... why? Noble's supoosed to be an even playing field, for frig's sake.

For player vs AI interaction seems the maintenance bonuses to somewhat balance themself out, so I think that they might be used for AI vs AI interaction. To make that interaction more offensive, so that inter AI wars are more then a defensive stalemat so that cities actually change hands. Because that is what players like to see, rather then static AI empires. Thought this is just speculation, only firaxis itself knows the real reasons.

[kolpo]

Originally posted by Saldrin
To make things easier for you guys trying to see what's going on, if you have chipotle in the ini for cheats, just hit ctrl+z.

You can then see exactly what the AI is doing. You can even open up their cities and see what things are costing them.

Very usefull information! Thanks

[snepp]

Originally posted by dearmad

Wrong. Discussed already. Shown incorrect.

Believe what you will, but the XML and the corresponding values in-game show otherwise.



Is it safe to assume there's alot of confusion in this thread stemming from the usage of the term "unit costs"? One usage being "upkeep cost", as in gold, and the other being "production cost", as in hammers.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Dale
Actually, I was just talking in kind to you, since civil conversation isn't so receptive for you.

As for what defines what the AI starts with, let's look at HandicapInfos.xml:

At Noble:
- Human unit cost = 50%
- AI unit cost = 100%

So an AI pays twice as much for a unit as a human does.

Truth:
- We know the human and AI START on an even footing at Noble level.

In order for this to be accurate the AI needs to be able to pump out its first unit at the same time as the human. Under the settings in HandicapInfos.xml a unit taking 5 turns for a human should take 10 for the AI. For the above statement to be correct the AI needs to pump the first unit out at 5 turns like the human. Therefore, give it half it's first unit for free on founding the first city.

Thus, you see the result you've noticed in your game. The AI gets half its first unit for free when it founds its first city to match the human's first unit production, and to have everyone start on an even footing. After that, it's down to the rules.

Anyways, that's just a simple guess you could've easily come up with just by looking at HandicapInfos.xml and a bit of thought.

Dale

a cookie for pwning dearmad

[Bhruic]

With completely incorrect information? How did that work, exactly?

Bh

[dearmad]

Originally posted by MrFun


a cookie for pwning dearmad

LOL. Yeah so much incorrect information, and guesses that are wrong, and pnage ensues.

[dearmad]

Originally posted by snepp

Believe what you will, but the XML and the corresponding values in-game show otherwise.



Is it safe to assume there's alot of confusion in this thread stemming from the usage of the term "unit costs"? One usage being "upkeep cost", as in gold, and the other being "production cost", as in hammers.

That could be about... um 90% of it, I think.

[snepp]

Originally posted by dearmad
That could be about... um 90% of it, I think.

Fair enough.

[kolpo]

Originally posted by snepp

Believe what you will, but the XML and the corresponding values in-game show otherwise.

Is it safe to assume there's alot of confusion in this thread stemming from the usage of the term "unit costs"? One usage being "upkeep cost", as in gold, and the other being "production cost", as in hammers.

Just do the following test:

a) start a new game. Write down the cost of a warrior unit in hammers. Then add with the world builder 20 units to your game and write down the unit cost of the financial screen.
b) save it and go to that XML file. Change iUnitCostPercent from 50% to 100%
b) reload your game and notice that a warrior has still the same hammer cost. Watch the financial screen screen and compare the cost with the one you just wrote down. It shall now be higher then before, 2 times as much(but rounded off course).

This proves without a shadow of a doubt how iUnitCostPercent influences the game.