You know... I think the AI also just gets units for free too:

[kolpo]

So an AI pays twice as much for a unit as a human does.

This was also my first conclusion but when I used spies to check this out noticed I that both the AI and me pay the SAME amount for each unit. For example in my last game where we both used police state costed a fighter 67 hammers for me and when i hovered over his city with my mouse(I had a spy in it) did it say it costed also 67 hammers for the AI.

[snepp]

Originally posted by Dale
Actually, I was just talking in kind to you, since civil conversation isn't so receptive for you.

As for what defines what the AI starts with, let's look at HandicapInfos.xml:

At Noble:
- Human unit cost = 50%
- AI unit cost = 100%

So an AI pays twice as much for a unit as a human does.

Truth:
- We know the human and AI START on an even footing at Noble level.

In order for this to be accurate the AI needs to be able to pump out its first unit at the same time as the human. Under the settings in HandicapInfos.xml a unit taking 5 turns for a human should take 10 for the AI. For the above statement to be correct the AI needs to pump the first unit out at 5 turns like the human. Therefore, give it half it's first unit for free on founding the first city.

Thus, you see the result you've noticed in your game. The AI gets half its first unit for free when it founds its first city to match the human's first unit production, and to have everyone start on an even footing. After that, it's down to the rules.

Anyways, that's just a simple guess you could've easily come up with just by looking at HandicapInfos.xml and a bit of thought.

The UnitCostPercent and AIUnitCostPercent have nothing to do with production.

[dearmad]

Originally posted by Dale
Actually, I was just talking in kind to you, since civil conversation isn't so receptive for you.

As for what defines what the AI starts with, let's look at HandicapInfos.xml:

At Noble:
- Human unit cost = 50%
- AI unit cost = 100%

So an AI pays twice as much for a unit as a human does.

Truth:
- We know the human and AI START on an even footing at Noble level.

In order for this to be accurate the AI needs to be able to pump out its first unit at the same time as the human. Under the settings in HandicapInfos.xml a unit taking 5 turns for a human should take 10 for the AI. For the above statement to be correct the AI needs to pump the first unit out at 5 turns like the human. Therefore, give it half it's first unit for free on founding the first city.

Thus, you see the result you've noticed in your game. The AI gets half its first unit for free when it founds its first city to match the human's first unit production, and to have everyone start on an even footing. After that, it's down to the rules.

Anyways, that's just a simple guess you could've easily come up with just by looking at HandicapInfos.xml and a bit of thought.

Dale

Nope. I wouldn't have come up with so many wrong answers and inferences, sorry. I certainly wouldn't have come up with the attitude you initially had toward me either, especially since I bothered posting pictures and discussing the XML.

The cost of units is even between AI and human on Noble. Verified by spying and partnering with AI.

The human/ai are NOT even at Noble- this is NOT a truth- why don't *you* check out the xml to verify this- you even contradict this in your own post above.

The AI does not "pump out its first unit as the same time as the human." In fact it is considerably earlier. Did you play the game? See... it gets those initial 10 prod. for free. Human doesn't. Human takes 5 turns, AI takes 2.

Thanks for the wild (but polite, right- you spoke 'in kind' because I initially spoke this way to you?) goose chase, though.

[Senethro]

So what does it matter if Firaxis have a different definition of balanced than you do?

[LzPrst]

how bout later in the game? I cant seem to figure out how the AI on noble can have stacks of 10-12 units in all his cities and still be leading in the tech race AND build the spaceship.

If I were to build the same number of troops as the AI I would have no buildings...

[dearmad]

Senothro- WTH are you talking about? This isn't about fairness or anyting to do with the AI- it has to do with a certain detail of the game being, apparently, locked away into the DLL rather than xmls, that's all.

LzPrst:
That would have to do with the AI paying significantly lower upkeep costs and upgrade costs compared to the human, I think. After the initial unit burst the AI can just accumulate a lot more units than you at Noble- but they build them no faster than you as far as I can observe.

I'm still messing with support costs to see if this changes that, however.

[Krill]

Well, the SDK is going to be released sometime in January, and that will allow you to change the DLL...

There was a choice between releasing the game before Christmas, and releasing the SDK afterwards, or holding everything back and miss the Christmas sales. You know how Firaxis likes choices

[Krill]

Lzprst, The AI does not do all three things. It does the first two great, because it spams cottages everywhere, but its' production shrivels up into almost nothing. It does not really compete in the space race as well as the Human does, due to the lack of production...but it gets to the techs sooner, and hence has more time to build them in the first place...

[snepp]

Originally posted by dearmad
LzPrst:
That would have to do with the AI paying significantly lower upkeep costs and upgrade costs compared to the human, I think. After the initial unit burst the AI can just accumulate a lot more units than you at Noble- but they build them no faster than you as far as I can observe.

I'm still messing with support costs to see if this changes that, however.

Actually, it's the other way around on Noble. Human player has a 50% reduction in unit costs while the AI pays at a 100% rate. These percentages go up/down depending on level. On Diety the Human percentage is 100 while the AI is 60.

This is slightly different for Unit Supply (upkeep cost for units outside of your cultural borders). Human players always pay at 100% (1g per unit per turn) while the AI pays only 50% on settler, decreasing by 5% per level.

[xxFlukexx]

Ok, the original post was about if the AI on noble gets free units that magically appear every so many turns or something. Dearmad has shown it's more of a general production boost that the AI gets even at noble.

1) They really shouldn't call noble an even playing field when it obviously isn't.
2) Stop yelling and getting all mad, geeez.

Let this thread die please, if you want to make a new thread about bonuses AI gets on noble, dearmad, I am all up for that but this thread is going downhill fast.

Oh and no I never see stacks of 10-12 units in every AI city on noble while having the tech lead and building the speaceship. In my games on prince, it's ME with the huge stacks of units while maintaining a good tech lead and building the speaceship all at once.

[dearmad]

Originally posted by snepp


Actually, it's the other way around on Noble. Human player has a 50% reduction in unit costs while the AI pays at a 100% rate. These percentages go up/down depending on level. On Diety the Human percentage is 100 while the AI is 60.

This is slightly different for Unit Supply (upkeep cost for units outside of your cultural borders). Human players always pay at 100% (1g per unit per turn) while the AI pays only 50% on settler, decreasing by 5% per level.

Wrong. Discussed already. Shown incorrect.

[Dale]

Originally posted by snepp


The UnitCostPercent and AIUnitCostPercent have nothing to do with production.

Well, if the direct hammer cost of a unit has nothing to do with production then what does?

[-Ab-]

how bout later in the game? I cant seem to figure out how the AI on noble can have stacks of 10-12 units in all his cities and still be leading in the tech race AND build the spaceship

you should see it on the higher levels

I'm so sick of all the ****ers on this board who blindy defend how the game operates

FANBOIS! dont try and argue with em youll just end up shouting

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Dale
Well, if the direct hammer cost of a unit has nothing to do with production then what does?

Our feelings towards it, obviously.

[Bhruic]

Ah, I found what 'Unit Cost' is. It's the general upkeep cost that units have. There's also an upkeep cost for units in enemy territory. You can see it on the Expenses column of the Financial Advisor.

Bh