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a review of the most underappreciated building of CIV: the harbor

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  • a review of the most underappreciated building of CIV: the harbor

    So far, I have heared very little comments on the harbor, which I find a huge shame. There might be situations where its importance is reduced, but overall the harbor is one of the most crucial buildings, and cheap as well too! So allow me to start the discussion by telling what it is I like so much about them.

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    Harbors, for those not familiar with the game yet, give you 50% more commerce from trade routes, while also giving you an extra health for every seafood resource you've got. They normally cost 80 hammers, which is reduced to 40 for expansionist civs.

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    Let me first say there are situations where harbors are near irrelevant. pangaea maps, maps where you have reached near dominance (so there are no large foreign cities to trade too), and games where you are running mercantilism are the obvious examples. For these, the following does not apply.

    Most other situations, though, the harbor is a better building to construct than a granary, library, market, grocer, aquaduct, and even in most situations a bank or a uni. Sometimes, it can also be a lot more important than a courthouse. In many instances is a harbor the first thing I construct in a new city, directly followed by a courthouse or granary.

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    The reason is the following: in many cities, your trade routes make up for half of the city commerce. If you gain 50% of that budget, this means a harbor will give you 25% more commerce in the city. This is before any other modifiers apply, and also before the slider is taken into effect.

    So, a city with 20 commerce, 10 from trade and 10 from tiles gets to 25 commerce with a harbor. That is +5.

    A library in the same city has less of an effect: a library gives 25% extra beakers (so not commerce!). Assume you're running at 70% research, the example becomes

    20 commerce * 70% gives 14 bpt. add a library, and you gain 20 commerce * 1.25 * 0.70 = 17 bpt. An increase of 3.

    You can see that, because of the slider, you will need to build both a library and a market to get the same effect as a harbor. Two buildings instead of one. You do get culture, though, which a harbor won't give you.

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    Add to this the very nice health benefit (any map where you can build harbors will have seafood resources), and the multiplication in bonusses: harbors are one of the only situations where a bonus is not first added to other modifiers, but directly multiplies. a lib plus a uni give an extra 75% beakers, while a harbor and a uni give 87.5% more beakers in the worst case. With the slider, the effect is even larger).

    So, even if you need to build a lib first (because of culture, e.g.), build a harbor before building a uni. It will cost a lot less, and gains you more. Build a uni after the harbor completes

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    So, are there specific strategies surrounding harbors? Oh yes

    a no-brainer: expansionist leaders get half cost harbors. Plus, they will most likely have larger pops in their cities, as granaries are also dirt cheap, and they gain an extra 2 pop to start with. Larger cities means more chance of getting good trade routes... it all escalates together in a total focus on harbors.

    So, try to beeline for compass, instead of going for currency first. The earlier you get those harbors up, the more benefit you will get from them. Currency is of course a very powerful tech too, but everyone will intuitively go for it for the markets and extra trade routes. The harbors is often forgotten. And in many cases it's very close: if you go the military line early on, you won't get to alphabet, mathematics, and currency easily. You will have iron working, though, direct prerequisite for the compass. Grabbing that before going for engineering can make all the difference in your game.

    Further, the best possible wonder is the great lighthouse. If you are going to beeline for the compass, you nearly pass it... and if you focus on it, you will nearly always beat the AI to it, even at higher difficulty levels. Talk about a long term investment: 2 more trade routes up to corporation, which together with harbors can mean your coastal cities produce most of your empire's commerce, mostly coming from one building: its harbor. In many cases I find myself holding of on corporation, just to get more trade coming in from my cities.

    This leads to another thing: If you have the opportunity because of lots of coast, it is nearly always better to specialise your cities into land cities with food/production, and coastal cities with commerce. Harbors only increase that importance of coastal cities, and makes it less necessary to add cottages on those few land tiles they are getting. So you can have a near-productive coastal city, which has enough hammers to build all commerce heavy buildings, mostly relying on sea tiles and trade routes for its commerce. Of course, later in the game towns get so important that you'll want more than a couple of them in any empire, but early on you often have no choice: you need production and growth to get you up and running fast. Harbors give you that commerce without eating up tiles, and thus hammers.

    So... I hope I can win over some converts to my enthousiasm for harbors!

    DeepO

  • #2
    I'm with you, DeepO (I posted about it in Vel's strategy thread, but it might have gotten overwhelmed).

    It seems that the bonus to trade route yield rounds up... I had a city that got +1 from each trade route. I built a harbor. Now each trade route is +2. Yum.

    I too like the Lighthouse. It's fairly cheap and the AI doesn't appear to go after it.

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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    • #3
      Vel's thread is too hectic, I can't keep up

      As to rounding: I don't think it is rounded up all the time. I don't know many examples which are like that in CIV. It's just rounded... but if you got 1.4 from your city before a harbor, that rounds to 1. Add a harbor, and 1.3*1.5 = 2.1... which rounds to 2.

      DeepO

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      • #4
        I learned to love the harbor in my latest game.
        Combined with the Great Lighthouse, the Harbor is truly a no-brainer. Anything that adds to trade routes is a good thing.

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        • #5
          Uh yeah a harbor can be quite useful. I don't know if anyone has talked about buildings in general so they are all really underappreciated if you look at it like that.

          The trade route bonus is good, not as important as the health from buildings like that but certainly not a problem. Sometimes ocean resources come clumped to where you might have five crabs and only get the +1 health once instead of say a granary with wheat and corn or whatever. If it gives you more total health it is certainly better than the others, ignoring cost.

          It, along with lighthouses and other coastal buildings, is part of why it is so very, very much better to start next to the coast than one tile off. More so than any other civ game before. You can't build lighthouses/harbors on fresh water lakes, though those tiles start with one extra food to compensate it seems.

          I think people as a whole may be discussing general land buildings instead of coastal buildings but that's just because you can count on being able to build those if you want them. Certain maps do have coastal starts so it certainly is as important, or just a shade off, for those maps.

          Haven't heard much about buildings anyways though.

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          • #6
            +1 health is just not all that important to me.
            The trade route bonus is significantly more important.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jcg316
              Uh yeah a harbor can be quite useful. I don't know if anyone has talked about buildings in general so they are all really underappreciated if you look at it like that.

              Everybody is talking about raising libs everywhere, and courthouses, and granaries so you can ICS... I'm saying the harbor is a better building than most of them.

              The trade route bonus is good, not as important as the health from buildings like that but certainly not a problem. Sometimes ocean resources come clumped to where you might have five crabs and only get the +1 health once instead of say a granary with wheat and corn or whatever. If it gives you more total health it is certainly better than the others, ignoring cost.

              Health is the bonus here, it's commerce that counts! If you find a harbor good for it's health, you are clearly not in love enough

              DeepO

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              • #8
                I think it's +1 health EACH from fish, clam, etc. So it's potentially +2 or 3. As pointed out above, you may not been lucky enough to have more than 1 type of sea resource, but I have in the past. Nifty.

                Then you don't need an aqueduct for quite a while.

                If you have two choices: harbor or aqua, and both will give you +2 health, there is no choice: the harbor wins hands-down, because it provides the trade route bonus too (and it may be cheaper, I forget).

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Notes from an underappreciator:

                  I usually build a Granary in a new city before a Harbor. And a Forge before the Harbor too. Granaries and Forges are "enablers" and therefore receive priority.

                  At some point it makes sense to build Harbors before Libraries, as DeepO demonstrated. The trick is, you have to get to that point: you need multiple, large, coastal cities. Late-game, with all the trade route bonuses, huge cities, and devalued worth of GPPs, Harbor-first certainly makes sense.

                  Unless on an Archipelago map I rarely beeline to Compass for Harbors. I pick it up at some point, of course, but it's never the cornerstone of my strategy.

                  The Health benefit is certainly nice, because you're almost always guaranteed to have at least one seafood around, compared to grain and animals.
                  And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dominae
                    I usually build a Granary in a new city before a Harbor. And a Forge before the Harbor too. Granaries and Forges are "enablers" and therefore receive priority.
                    granaries are certainly important early on, however in many games have I found that it's commerce that is limiting growth, not food. This is especially true in coastal cities next to seafood: these will have enough food, but never enough production. You want them to specialise to commerce cities, but building cottages is too costly early on... hence the harbor. Don't wait too long with the granary, though

                    At some point it makes sense to build Harbors before Libraries, as DeepO demonstrated. The trick is, you have to get to that point: you need multiple, large, coastal cities. Late-game, with all the trade route bonuses, huge cities, and devalued worth of GPPs, Harbor-first certainly makes sense.

                    Late game is when this strategy is nearly the only option anymore, in the beginning it is just one of the choices (but a very good one IMHO). If you conquer a coastal city, you want a harbor. Depending on its trade, it even beats a courthouse: in many cases 50% more trade is worth more cash then half the maintenance is.

                    In the early game though, it is also very powerful. However, to let it shine you need to focus on it. The great lighthouse in itself can pay for all commerce buildings in a coastal empire (I mean its effect can be as large as putting monasteries, libs and markets in every single city), if you add a harbor on top of that you are going to have a hard task in getting yourself bankrupt. Harbors before granaries can give you the edge you need to send a couple of more settlers out, and while you are building settlers, granaries don't do anything.

                    As to forges: well, I like them too, but rarely go for them straigth away. I tend to discover alphabet before I can build forges... if you go for the compass before you go for writing, most of your cities will have harbors up by the time you can ask for open borders with all civs. Currency is only a nice bonus then

                    The Health benefit is certainly nice, because you're almost always guaranteed to have at least one seafood around, compared to grain and animals.

                    Yeah, always 1, most of the times 2 within reach of your starting location. It's rare to have all 4 types (clams, crabs, whale, fish) within reach, but granaries will never get their 4 bonus resources early on either.

                    DeepO

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dominae
                      I usually build a Granary in a new city before a Harbor. And a Forge before the Harbor too. Granaries and Forges are "enablers" and therefore receive priority.
                      I usually build Forge first and then Granary. Industrial leader gives Forge a high priority.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BgT
                        I usually build Forge first and then Granary. Industrial leader gives Forge a high priority.
                        I usually build a harbor if I can, and add another settler to the queue (in another city, most likely). Settlers use food, so forges are not so important, and granaries are irrelevant. So while you are trying to grow your empire into something more mature, I create the possibility to have one more city. I still build forges and granaries, of course, but the delay it takes me to reach those y going for a harbor first, it doesn't really cost me (as the bonusses don't kick in).

                        I know it's a bit artificial, all I can ask is that you try. There are games where I go for forges or granaries first, there are even games where I will build a lib before a harbor as I need the culture, or the ability to create scientists. In most of my games, I found the harbor-focus gave me better results, though. Especially in aggressive games: again, it's commerce that is limiting your conquering, not the ability to build units a bit faster. And going for compass is easy for warmongers, just one small step sideways...

                        DeepO

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                        • #13
                          For me the priority changes depending on whether I'm running the civic that lets me rush buildings with cash or not. If I am then Forges are #1. If I'm not then granaries for landlocked cities. For coastal cities it's more complicated. If they're near a coastal food resource like clams or fish then I build work boats first. If there's no special coastal resources but they have decent food production on land then I build a harbor first. If I plunked a city down in the middle of a jungle on the coast with no coastal resources then I build a lighthouse first and then a harbor.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by khumak
                            For me the priority changes depending on whether I'm running the civic that lets me rush buildings with cash or not. If I am then Forges are #1.
                            Interesting... I never have that amount of cash laying around, though. Techs are damn expensive! (and upgrades too)
                            For coastal cities it's more complicated. If they're near a coastal food resource like clams or fish then I build work boats first. If there's no special coastal resources but they have decent food production on land then I build a harbor first.


                            work boat or resource first? Hum. It depends. I try to build workboats in specialised cities... if you've got a coastal barracks city, that is many times an excellent work boat source as well. Building work boats in freshly started coastal cities can take forever... if there is no other option, they should come before harbors though.

                            If I plunked a city down in the middle of a jungle on the coast with no coastal resources then I build a lighthouse first and then a harbor.

                            Yeah, that's one of the exceptions. However, if you start a city in complete tundra or jungle, without any seafood nearby, you need an excellent reason to do so. Starting a jungle city without a worker to clear some out is a huge drain on resources.

                            DeepO

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                            • #15
                              I played an Ice Age map last night, which was basically an archipelago map with rough terrain.

                              I built the Great Lighthouse and lots & lots of harbors. I did, however, typically build a workboat right off the bat if the city could use one. I want to jumpstart growth ASAP, so it was often: workboat, lighthouse, forge, harbor (or harbor, forge), granary. The order was probably different each time, but those are the basics. It worked well.

                              -Arrian
                              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                              Comment

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