Archer Killed Modern Armor!!!?!?!

[garetjaxusmc]

I imagine that a tank could break down and the crew has to get out, and it is massacred. Modern technology is far from infallible, something that I learned in the Marine Corps. You can have all the fancy technology in the world, but when it gets down to it, it will break down in adverse weather or rough conditions (for example, desert environment over in Iraq causes tremendous wear and tear on our equipment.)

So a tank falling to an archer or spearman, I wouldn't find impossible. On a consistent basis, granted, probably not. But every now and then, certainly.

You want an example of simplicity vs. technology... stick a large potato in the exhaust pipe of a car. Sure, a potato isn't exactly the weapon of champions, but it works.

[Solver]

You want an example of simplicity vs. technology... stick a large potato in the exhaust pipe of a car. Sure, a potato isn't exactly the weapon of champions, but it works.

Or watch McGyver and Rambo. McGyver can do awesome stuff having just garbage - literally - at his disposal, and Rambo takes down military equipment with a bow and an arrow.

[Kataphraktoi]

or you could just watch starwars epp 6 and say the ewok win is feasable. sticks,arrows,and logs easily defeating a strong force after minor setbacks.
that makes sense.

we should hire jackie chan for specops! that way we could save all our money on useless special forces.paradrop him in,and in 30 minutes the whole base is whiped out

[Solver]

Hey, I'm not saying that should happen often, but if I lose one Modern Armor against a Longbowman during a war, I'd write it off as a Rambo event.

By the way, in my last game, I fought a war vs. a backward opponent, where I had Infantry, Cavalry and Riflemen, the opponent had Musketmen, Grenadiers and Knights. I didn't lose a single Infantry, that being my most advanced unit and twice stronger than their best unit.

[Kataphraktoi]

i dont really care about once in a million, but the continued support of these tactics as if its a common thing amazes me.

overall the cIV system seems OK for combat, personally. However,i would be much happier seeing a warrior take out my tank than a longbowman, because a warrior can mean anything, including those tactics mentioned. Maybe have a tech(s) that obsolete all enemy units and replace them with slightly tiny bit stronger-say get MA and all longbows upped to Modern Warrior,thats not a great unit to build, but at least not piss-you-off to lose to. or just change the name of all weak-era units that are so far behind.

[Kc7mxo]

The Civ2 combat model prevented this sort of thing a lot better.

The problem seems to be that one hit from an archer is the same as a hit from a tank. they should have signifcantly different firepower ratings and hit points to prevent sillyness.

So a modern tank might have 10 firepower and 30 hit points, and the longbowmen would have 5 firepower and 15 hit points. (normal attack rating). Longbowmen has to get lucky 6 times to kill the tank, tank only needs to hit the longbowmen twice.

I much preffered that system to civ 3 or civ 4 numbingly simplistic and dumbed down systems.

I would really like to see a mod do this, but keep the civ 4 promotions as I like the added depth they bring.

[Kataphraktoi]

The Civ2 combat model prevented this sort of thing a lot better.

The problem seems to be that one hit from an archer is the same as a hit from a tank. they should have signifcantly different firepower ratings and hit points to prevent sillyness.

So a modern tank might have 10 firepower and 30 hit points, and the longbowmen would have 5 firepower and 15 hit points. (normal attack rating). Longbowmen has to get lucky 6 times to kill the tank, tank only needs to hit the longbowmen twice.

I much preffered that system to civ 3 or civ 4 numbingly simplistic and dumbed down systems.

I would really like to see a mod do this, but keep the civ 4 promotions as I like the added depth they bring.

damn straight, although with civ2, a armour with 10 Attack 5 Defence 3 Hitpoints and 1 Firepower easily overpowered any number of say 1-2-1-1 pikeman regardless of citywalls and whatnot.

hitpoints and firepower were vastly stronger than a\d so a single jump in 1 hp or fp would make the unit easily kill earlier troops without huge changes in a\d. besides that,it was alot more consistant

[Solver]

Firepower is in Civ4. Damage scales with power. I'm not sure about the exact formula right now, but a Modern Armor needs either one or two hits (should be one under most circumstances) to kill a Longbowman.

[Disk Killer]

Original poster doesn't even know what the odds numbers were before attacking.

Sorry, but he's just not playing Civilization 4 properly. It might not fit with his worldview, but he's playing this game, and this game's battle outcomes are based on the game rules unless he edits them himself.

He either looks at the odds number before attacking, thus using this freely available information to help modify his tactical choices, or he ignores them and gets frustrated for no good reason. The choice is his.

By the by, I don't see how this is different from any other game, be it wargame, sports game, board game, whatever.

[Solver]

Well, the original poster also says that he finds completely dominating with more modern units fun - perhaps it would be a good idea to mod units by eras to have even more strength. For example, Archer = 3, Longbowman = 9, Musketman = 16, Rifleman = 35, Infantry = 55, Tank = 70, Modern Armor = 100. Modding strengths for all units in a similar manner would make the player with more modern units dominate completely.

[LordShiva]

Off-topic, but I wonder what the absolute highest power rating you can give a unit is...

Warriors with 65535 power!

[myros]

You just have to remember the game is full of approximations. It is not supposed to be an exact simulation.

An archer in a well developed city with max defenses is the equivalent of a much higher lvl unit. Just because the graphic shows an archer if you forget that the game is not completely built around "unit type = only factor" then your gonna lose.

A city defense of 20 is the equivalent of an archer standing with a bazooka team, a mortar squad and and anti-tank gun under his command

And like was said if you got lazy and didnt even check the ACTUAL combat values and not what you assumed the values were just on "looks" then you deserved to lose ;p Real world battles have been lost on just such mistakes.

Myros

[GTPoompt]

Even then, an archer from medieval era's wouldn't even know how to fight a modern armor. Unless he can somehow make his arrows fly at the speed of sound, the tank could probably just steamroll over the archers.

I've had 2 full strength modern tanks in a plain field lose to a longbowman... now, I understand the longbow is a powerful weapon in it's own right, and could pierce knight's armor... but a tank? the knight has to ride in a hit the archer... the tank just shoots from who knows where and the archer blows up.

Really, It shouldn't matter what kind of hill those spearman are standing on, a tank shouldn't lose to it. (yes this happened in civ 4 as well). The spearman would probably run after one volley of tank fire.

Modern units SHOULD dominate. Apparently, I read somewhere that in WW2 or something, a group of cavalry/non-modern infantry got wiped out by tanks. If you fall behind that far in the tech race, you should be wiped out.

If I was on the side with longbowmen and getting attacked by tanks what would I do? I sure wouldn't like it, but that's my mistake for not devoting enough research to weaponry, or not upgrading my units.

If anyone's played Europa Universalis 2, a group of fully teched out infantry will mow down/demoralize a huge group of infantry (yes 5000 infantry would beat 30000 infantry). And that's how it should be.

[Akaoz]

One Tank can die from anything. Maybe the crew fell in love with the Amazon Archer Warriors and left to have babies. Maybe it fell down a well and Lassie wasn't around to get help.

Problem is: A Tank in CIV isn't supposed to be One Lone Tank, is it?

How does an archer based army (Longbow man) take out a panzer division? Sure, given good tactics and training they can take out or stop a tank or two, but a whole division? With, I'm assuming at this scale, support personnel?

For my own peace of mind I always imagine a few black market types selling RPGs to the tech impaired. Even then, it's a stretch if we have an undamaged tank unit.

[CrONoS]

Or instead imagine they have Canadian tanks... anythink can blow a canadian tank!!!

Originally posted by Akaoz

For my own peace of mind I always imagine a few black market types selling RPGs to the tech impaired. Even then, it's a stretch if we have an undamaged tank unit.