Vel's Strategy Thread

[gentle]

hi guys ^^

spent the last few days playing deity difficulty to check out if the early expansion is viable (referring to bronze and chopping).

this strat is pretty good / better said "fast enough" to claim some good cities on deity.
tthough other problems did arise:
1. techtree stuff: due to hordes of barbarians i have come to the conclusion that Archers are a must have early on (usually the tech i go for after bronze - starting with catherine who brings mining and hunting).
by archers = must have i mean: MUST ! have. i really recommend to check that out yourself but i see no other possibility, maybe except taking that civ that gets excellent warrior-special unit (inca or so?)
2. having a state religion is diplomatic suicide (-4) which does what you dont want to be done...aggroing the comp early on =P
3. the computers are fast in building wonders. usually stonehenge is completed around 2500BC !
4.health and unrest become an issue when cities reach size of 3 or 4. also, for choosing new city sites this factor is important (jungle really hurts so just for countering this, one wants to research iron working to chop them down).
5. great leaders occur rarely because one does not get wonders and therefore no easy GL pts.

most important thing i am looking after atm is how to improve research. of course alphabet is a good one to close the starting gap (comps seem to trade according to research costs,btw) but nevertheless they are always seriously ahead in tech. i remember one game where victoria finished their spaceship around 1700 when i was researching gunpowder or so *sigh*
(ok, have to admit that after early game i have absolutely no plan what is going on, but this was quite ahead of me anyway).

[QuestGAV]

Could that penalty get softened by sharing religions on a per-city basis while not having the same state religion?

Because I like Bismarck so much I don't have any real experience with the three early religions, but at least at Prince I've found that I can consistently get to Code of Laws first without handicapping myself. On really good starts I'll finish the Oracle right after Code of Laws and get Philosophy as well. Even if I'm significantly behind at this point, these two expensive techs translate into pretty much everything else rather easily via trade.

Having cheap granaries means that once I'm done with the active expansion phase my cities develop with lightning speed. I've also decided that building any granaries before a city is done building settlers is a massive waste d/t the fact it gives zero benefit while building settlers/workers. Next game I may work a bit harder to get forges up right after I get Code of Laws done. Given how expensive they normally are, cheap forges are a huge boon and their health malus is considerably less painful when combined with the expansive trait.

[]LoL[Harm]

I'm still struggling to find a solid strategy to get a lead on Monarch level. I just tried out the Settler First strat and happily built my second city on the 24th (20 build, 4 travel) turn of the game. I was able to establish both Hinduism and Judaism.

But then things went sour around 500BC. The barbarian hordes hit at around 1100BC and it was a constant stream of warriors and archers. I was able to setup my third city during this time but only after giving it a two warrior escort. There wasn't any place close by that was very suitable for a fourth city and exploration was cut short by three nearby AI civ's borders.

Even with two cities I was forced into 90% sci early on, my third city was founded only after I was sure that it wouldn't force me to 80% (shortly after my second city hit size 5).

At 1500BC I was second in score of the 3 other civ's I'd made contact with, by 500BC I was last and behind by close to 200 points.

I'm going to chalk this one up to a bad starting location. Only two good city spots in a 15 tile radius were not 90% Jungle or Desert. (I play with all random, I got dealt a good hand with Ghandi/India as my civ)

[QuestGAV]

[SIZE=1]
3. the computers are fast in building wonders. usually stonehenge is completed around 2500BC !

That's where industrious comes in handy ;-)

For me, I've noticed a huge difference in being able to get Stonehenge out early and helping my cities expand passively. Stonehenge is essentially an early game version of the Creative trait to me. The expanded city radii are huge because it gives me more forests to chop for production to push out more workers and settlers and eventually granaries and forges.

[QuestGAV]

Originally posted by ]LoL[Harm
I'm still struggling to find a solid strategy to get a lead on Monarch level. I just tried out the Settler First strat and happily built my second city on the 24th (20 build, 4 travel) turn of the game. I was able to establish both Hinduism and Judaism.

Where was Bronze Working on your priority list? Axemen are expensive but they're a pretty foolproof tool for clearing out early barbs if you can build them.

[gentle]

Originally posted by QuestGAV


That's where industrious comes in handy ;-)

For me, I've noticed a huge difference in being able to get Stonehenge out early and helping my cities expand passively. Stonehenge is essentially an early game version of the Creative trait to me. The expanded city radii are huge because it gives me more forests to chop for production to push out more workers and settlers and eventually granaries and forges.

Industrious sure though:
i dont want to build it for the +1culture effect (playing cureative civ anyway) but to get GL points. furthermore, its just a lot to be done early on: get bronze, build settler (usually 3000bc) that leaves about 500 years (~15 turns) to get mysticsm and complete stonhenge.
barbarians come now too, so you need a defense also.
i have not been able to build stonehenge in any game, even when i played industrious civs just to check out (still my favourite is the hottie / game***** Catherine ^^)

[QuestGAV]

You're playing up two levels from me anyway which could explain a big chunk of the difference. Short of quickly hooking up a resource for it or making it your chop priority over your first settler, I don't see Stonehenge as being consistently viable for a non-industrious civ.

[gentle]

Originally posted by QuestGAV
You're playing up two levels from me anyway which could explain a big chunk of the difference. Short of quickly hooking up a resource for it or making it your chop priority over your first settler, I don't see Stonehenge as being consistently viable for a non-industrious civ.

yes, think so too. its either settler/expansion or wonder atm

[art_vandelai]

I don't think it's only the long-term impact on health that I'm worried about chopping, it's the long term impact on shields/ hammers, and the citiy's ability to crank out units and wonders later on. Forests allow an extra hammer per turn, as well as food, which allows for some pretty good production in the early game if you don't have any other high production tiles like mined hills to work. Workshops don't come until much later, and with them there's a tradeoff, as you lose 1 food but gain 1 hammer when building them. Chop now, and get 30 hammers, but that tile may provide 100 hammers or more while forested.

If you're surrounded by grasslands / forests, and don't have any production resources in the radius, it's best to make sure you keep some forests around to give you the hammers to build settlers, armies and improvements later on.

[gentle]

ok, actually i managed to get settler and stonehenge on deity. adjusted my starting a bit. now i did:

Starting civ: Catherine-Russia (Cre/Fin) - Hunting/Mining

1.Build City
->research BWork
2.Build Worker
->research mysticism - usually archery
3.Build Settler (chopped 2 forests)
->research archery
4.Build Stonehenge (chopped 4 forests) - usually it is an archer here
time: 2360BC

Barbarians are lurking around now (2 archer spotted) and i am building one on my own now, though i am getting a bit nervous because forests became sparse ^^ and my second city also needs one. but i made it to build the wonder and a settler *cheer*

edit:
btw, you can chop outside your cultural borders
edit2:
*sigh* couldnt hold barb (3 warrior,2 archer) and in the next game someone built it before me (2600BC)..gogogo^^
need defense first again or its a gamble =P

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by vmxa1

If you are not going to send out missionaries, you will not spread the state religion all that much. I tried the asking them to convert and found it is not too useful. This is becasue they converted again to something else.

Depends on the civ.

They can change every couple of turns or so, I kept making 1 neighbor change by threatening. Few turns later, he'ld change back. I threaten again a few turns later.

1 turn anarchy each change is not totally worthless. Even roped them in on a war during one of the 'on' periods when we were 'brothers of the faith'.

(this was on 'prince' level, (yeah, I'm slow moving up) might not be viable later)

[Jawa Jocky]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Cities can hold 2 religions.

On 'Noble' I've had no trouble getting 4.

I'm using WAS (the Wandering Aimlessly Strategy) with great success!

[Arrian]

WAS

[Velociryx]

Seconded!

WAS Rocks!

-=Vel=-

[Footie Mad]

Originally posted by Velociryx

One thing I still do not have a feel for yet is at what point unit maintenance begins to appear for your civ. Is it as simple as X units per city, or is there some formulatic approach? (and a good follow-up question would be...does it vary as difficulty level increases?). So far, the only time I've seen ANY troop maintenance has been while running Pacifism, so my guess is that the numbers are fairly high (cos even in games where I ranked 1-2 militarily, I've still not had any troop maint. costs, save for running Pacifism).

-=Vel=-

I played a pangea game on monarch recently, and had a bit of military buildup in the early medieval era. It was the first time I felt that war really strained my budget as I had to pillage the enemy land each turn just to be able to keep my science rate at a reasonable level. Capturing a city and getting a clump sum of gold suddenly became very important and crucial for not falling behind in tech. When I looked at the financial advisor the cost of troop maintenance was the biggest reason. Adds a great strategic perspective on things.