Moving Cannon from Steel to Gunpowder

[notyoueither]

They are not destroyed, no. They will regenerate if you leave them alone and move off.

[notyoueither]

Bombardment does reduce the defence bonus from walls and castles, just does not destroy the structures, so if the defenders win, they do not have to rebuild them.

[MattPilot]

na.. i think your confused

As i understand it, bombardment only destroys the CULTURAL defensive value.

For every expansion of the boarders, you get +20% defense. This is independent of walls or castles.

[notyoueither]

Believe me, cats can take an ancient walled city to zero. They would be useless otherwise.

[notyoueither]

And again, they're not destroying anything. They are reducing the defence modifier from city/walls. The modifier regenerates if taken to zero and then left alone.

[notyoueither]

Have a look, if you don't believe me.

The barb city has zero cultural defence, and 50% from walls. That's the third cat shot.

[Addled Platypus]

Trebuchet

those would so rock

and then throw them

[Sartaq]

In my first game I had a nice big stack of cannons. They temporarily lower the entire defence value to 0% if you have enough bombardment power.

Just confirming what has already been said

[Fried-Psitalon]

Cannons at Gunpowder become the single right answer; you don't need to build anything else. If you haven't noticed, at no point in CIV right now is this true; every unit has a counter - something which it must fear. If you put the Cannon at Gunpowder, it has no unit to fear for quite some time - first person to Gunpowder wins.

[MattPilot]

hmm.. ya think so fried?


I wouldn't go as far as saying that who has cannons wins, but someone would definitely have an edge.

Cavalry, with 15 combat & +50% cannon would definitely counter any cannon threat. I will point out, however, that cavalry is a little bit harder to get.

Another thing that could be changed in connected with moving cannons to gunpowder would be to increase gun powder from 1500 cost to 2000 and give knights (one tech before gun powder), a +25 against siege weapons.

Considering that cannons can't have defensive bonus', this would balance itself out.

[LzPrst]

put in bronze cannons. and maybe trebuchet as well. will be lots of siege weapons to upgrade, but thats the arms race for ya.

and historically, cannons battered down the walls of constantinople allowing the turks to take the city they had been unable to take for 400 years due to its magnificent walls. when gunpowder cannons came it took away the advantage of walls.

[alva]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Bombardment does reduce the defence bonus from walls and castles, just does not destroy the structures, so if the defenders win, they do not have to rebuild them.

Walls are stupid...throw rocks at them!!!

sorry...

Cannons at Gunpowder become the single right answer;

I'm with you one this one. Adding a new slightly more powerwull unit such as the trebuchet maybe, canons do too much damage.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Originally posted by MattPilot
hmm.. ya think so fried?


I wouldn't go as far as saying that who has cannons wins, but someone would definitely have an edge.

Cavalry, with 15 combat & +50% cannon would definitely counter any cannon threat. I will point out, however, that cavalry is a little bit harder to get.

Another thing that could be changed in connected with moving cannons to gunpowder would be to increase gun powder from 1500 cost to 2000 and give knights (one tech before gun powder), a +25 against siege weapons.

Considering that cannons can't have defensive bonus', this would balance itself out.

I agree that cavalry counter the cannon threat... but you can get Gunpowder a LOOOOOOONG, LOOOOOOOOOONG time before you see Cavalry at Military Tradition... if you see them at all. Remember; the tech tree is highly flexible. If you beeline for Cannons, you'll get them early enough to do tremendous damage with them, and that's from where they are on the tech tree now. You could run riot with a fast beeline to Gunpowder, if you put Cannons there. Serious gamebreaker.

The "Knight patch" you're suggesting would help, but Pikes counter knights rather well (as do War Elephants) and having Construction or Engineering before Gunpowder isn't hard to do. Having Rifling (Riflemen to counter Cavalry) before Steel, on the other hand, is quite a bit harder, and helps prevent single-unit-dominance.

[xxFlukexx]

Ya I agree with Fried-Psitalon. While it would be nice to move cannons up, one of the things in civ is that you usually get the defensive units right before access to offensive units, so you can't just blitz to one tech, mass units and dominate, which is exactly what I would do if you moved cannons to gunpowder.

I agree, I need something like a trebuchet unit with ~8 strength for medieval armies. It's really needed to have another unit because siege weapons are supposed to be the counter to a huge stack of units, so when catapults are still at 5 strength, units of macemen are at 8 str and knights are at 10 str, catapults can barely hit anything.

Now that I think about it, if they did add in a new siege, it should have a -33% str modifier while defending, we don't want siege to be used as a normal soldier in the field.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by MattPilot
On another note, longbow men are good defenders in general, but against siege weapons one should have a mounted unit (+25 siege) garrisoned in a city. The Knight or cavalry could be a good adversary for a cannon, no?

I had this idea as well, though it doesn't work. Mounted units do not get the bonus vs siege units while defending. I think Trip stated that in another thread.