interesting thread on civfanatics

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Solver
The game runs on a FX5200.

Sabre - those Intel "graphical chipsets" don't support T&L and can't run the game.

even though the same chip can run doom3, halflife 2, age of empires 3 and surely pretty many more graphics intensive games?
can't one just "switch off" the T&L parts of the game somehow? i'll be just as happy to miss out on the trees and smoke so i can play the game on my notebook when travelling

[jadelith]

people (including me) can't play a civ game because of graphics... this is ridiculous

[Willem]

Originally posted by sabrewolf


even though the same chip can run doom3, halflife 2, age of empires 3 and surely pretty many more graphics intensive games?
can't one just "switch off" the T&L parts of the game somehow? i'll be just as happy to miss out on the trees and smoke so i can play the game on my notebook when travelling

Blame Intel for that. T&L has been around for awhile now, so there's no reason why their graphic cards don't support it.

[MrTester]

As best as I can tell the only things that are impacted by the T&L issue are the map when some areas are not explored (You can see everything fine if you set the option to see hidden terrain), and the faces of the talking heads.

I cant imagine that Firaxis is going to loose a chunk of the market by not fixing the map issue for non T&L chipsets.

As far as the talking heads go, who cares? Sure Id rather have it look right, but I can easily accept that not EVERYTHING will work on my older laptop.

Come on Firaxis...
Announce that you are going to fix the black map problem....
You know you want too...
Ill put you in my will

[Stromprophet]

Re: interesting thread on civfanatics

Originally posted by vee4473
a thread over there on their civ 4 help forum titled "i just talked to civ4 customer support" or something like that said the following:


And it's all bad news. Basically, if you are getting the black terrain, it means that your video chipset is too old to run the game, and there is no solution planned for that. If you are seeing some of the terrain, while the rest is black, it means the same thing--your video chipset is too old, and you will not be able to play the game properly on that machine.

So, in conclusion, if you are having video problems with Civ4, they are there to stay because Firaxis made the game that way. There is no solution right now, and there is not one planned in the future. I am returning my own copy to the store tomorrow. Apparently, my one-and-a-half-year-old P4 2.4 laptop, which runs Doom 3 and HL2 flawlessly is not good enough to run the incredibly technologically advanced Civ4.


end quote.

I have a geforce 4 mx440 and I fear now.

I had the same issue and I have a Geforce 4 MX 440 AGP8X.

I uninstalled the driver update from windows installer and installed 81.85 from Nvidias website and now it is working. There is a little graphics issue with some terrain being visible through the black but it doesn't bother me that much.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MrTester

I cant imagine that Firaxis is going to loose a chunk of the market by not fixing the map issue for non T&L chipsets.

Why should they? They've mentioned for awhile now that T&L is a requirement for the game. I've known about since the summer. It's not their fault if people don't want to acknowledge that fact.

And sure that excludes a lot of laptop users, but that's also not their fault. If the laptop manufacturers want to cut corners on their graphic cards and not include a technology that's been around for several years now, then users should be complaining to them, not Firaxis.

[MrTester]

Its not a matter of fault or blame. Im not here whinning saying "Oh poor me"....(Well, maybe a little) Im just saying that if they can make a relatively minor change and get an extra handful of users, thats worthwhile.

Is this a minor change? I dont know, but it seems to me that if I can fix it by selecting a single option (Selecting the "View hidden terrain" option or whatever its called) they should be able to take that a step further.

Dont rain on my parade just because Im trying to be an optimist.

[evizaer]

It looks like Civ IV has left people in the dust graphically for strange reasons. I never before thought that I'd be saying that a Civ game is graphically demanding...

I wish they'd go for performance instead of looks. One of the last things i'd buy a Civ game for is graphics.

[Willem]

Originally posted by evizaer

I wish they'd go for performance instead of looks. One of the last things i'd buy a Civ game for is graphics.

It's not just about performance, 3D is easier to develop and so cheaper to produce. As Warpstorm explained it, in Civ 3 they would create a graphic using a 3D program, then render it out frame by frame into a 2D. It saves them alot of work not having to take that final step.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by MrTester
Is this a minor change?

If it was, don't you think they would've fixed it a long time ago? Firaxis knew almost from very early on that T&L was going to be a requirement and that this would force some people to upgrade their card to play Civ4, which is why this was announced long before release. If T&L could be avoided easily they would have. But as Willem says, some manufacturors just keep cutting corners on their graphics cards, you can't ask Firaxis tie their hands behind their back in developing the game just because of that. T&L is 5+-year-old technology, where I live you can get a T&L card for less than €30 (though if anyone plans to upgrade, I'd recommend spending a little more money to get better performance and a longer lifespan), it's hardly unreasonable if people have to spend that much to get their system up to specs.

Originally posted by evizaer
I never before thought that I'd be saying that a Civ game is graphically demanding...

It's not. T&L has been around for over 5 years, some manufacturors just put out dirt cheap cards which are aimed at the really-low-budget crowd. They make sure it works on a few of the most popular games so they can claim it's suitable for gaming, even if it really lacks basic features that a real gamer requires.

[MrTester]

I work in software.
It is NOT as simple as just saying "If its that simple wouldnt they have done it?"

Maybe the change is not that simple, then so-be-it.

But sometimes we make statements like "we wont support browser x version y". So we dont test it and dont support it. Until someone on the outside comes to us and says "you know, it almost works on this browser, except I cant do this..." At which point we say "oh, thats all it takes? Make the fix and say we support it."

Sometimes developers have to make blanket statements because we just dont have the time to check out all of the things that we "almost support".

[Locutus]

Originally posted by MrTester
But sometimes we make statements like "we wont support browser x version y". So we dont test it and dont support it. Until someone on the outside comes to us and says "you know, it almost works on this browser, except I cant do this..." At which point we say "oh, thats all it takes? Make the fix and say we support it."

I worked on Civ4 and trust me, that's not the case here

[MrTester]

Then maybe you can explain (and im honestly not trying to troll here, im curious whats going on) why I can view the map if I use the "view hidden terrain" option?

[Stromprophet]

View hidden terrain? Where is that option? But does it show the whole map?

The black terrain is definitely not just a graphics card issue. It's a bug that needs to be fixed.

[MrTester]

Im at work, so I dont have it in front of me, but an option from the game is to go into a map editor. One of the options in there is something along the lines of "reveal map" or "View whole map". something like that.

Its a cheat relly, but it takes care of the black problem. It only shows terrain though, so its not too bad, but it takes the fun out of exploration.