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as usual a major media reviewer who is at least not clear and most probably dont know what he's writing about
Knights vs Helicopters have nothing to do with Phalanx vs Tank
To use Civ4 numbers, these are the combat values
Phalanx 5
Tank 28
Knight 10
Helicopter 20
With promotions and terrain bonus of course unit A might be able to defeat a unit B with double it's combat value. But NOT 6 times it's value.....
hmmm
from those numbers you posted, I am losing confidence in how Firaxis has done combat and weighted the combat strength of units...
phalanx combat is half of knight..
but knight is half of helicopter?
sorry...
but an Apache gunship, for instance, fully armed, could strafe back and forth over columns of knights and medieval cavalry and annihilate MILLIONS of them without getting so much of a scratch on it...
the only thing that would limit the amount of kills would be how fast it could reload and how long it could stay flying...
the only way an Apache would crash is by pilot error... and that would probably be rare...
even in modern combat, advanced tanks can totally pwn inferior tanks... look at the first Gulf War... the American Abrams dealt total PWNAGE to the Iraqi forces.
IIRC, not a single American tank was lost to an Iraqi tank. The only American tank losses were to friendly fire.
So no. Never will a freaking phalanx destroy a tank. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
It should never happen in a game.
NEVER!
The power rating or combat rating should not even be 6 times difference between tank and phalanx... it should not even be 100 times...
it should be IMPOSSIBLE... for a tank to lose to a phalanx.
yeah, come to think about it, russians and americans never lost a single chopper to mujahedeens
cmon guys, a bit of abstraction. what you are calling for is for somebody who happens to be a tad in front with military technique to effortlesly roll over inferior opponents. if we are to follow sava's statistics, a single unit of modern infantrly should defeat a literally infinite number of ancient units
all this said, i gotta admit that i was never that bothered with tank vs. spearman thing. when serbia was expecting american invasion we were, of course, sharpening our spears
Well, LaRusso, perhaps the Mujerhadeen's success against Russian choppers might have had something to do with those little 'Stinger' SAM's that they carried around with them ! My only issue with this whole knight vs. gunship thing is that there is clearly an 'altitude' difference between the two units, which a sword/lance simply can't overcome. Personally, I wouldn't be suprised if this whole thing is just a minor little 'bug' which has crept in as a result of the gunship's 'intermediary' status-between being an air and a ground unit. I reckon we won't have to wait long to see this patched-until then, I would suggest that you give the gunship a +50% combat bonus against mounted units !
9.5/10! I don't care if there's a chance in a million somewhere that a spearman can defeat a tank, as long as it almost can't happen. And anyway, there's a lot that's more important in the game that that.
Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
Also active on WePlayCiv.
aussie, true. however, there is a bit of tech trickle...always. i hate ewoks, but there were always occassions on which outnumbered or technologically inferior forces won. at least sometimes. to completely remove any chance of such outcome would turn civ into a meat grinder.
tanks can be destroyed by molotov cocktails, and you need zero tech for that.i can imagine chopper being taken down by flaming arrows. perhaps that is not realistic, but combat is a bit abstract on this level. of course, not american choppers, they fall only because of friendly fire or malfunctioning
but an Apache gunship, for instance, fully armed, could strafe back and forth over columns of knights and medieval cavalry and annihilate MILLIONS of them without getting so much of a scratch on it...
yeah so let's end the game with the discovery of the helicopter...
The power rating or combat rating should not even be 6 times difference between tank and phalanx... it should not even be 100 times...
Check out the movie review on IGN, it is actually very good indeed... You see unit promotions, great people, culture growth, fighting, a whole bunch of stuff. I hadn't appreciated just how fast everything can be moved around...
One thing they do highlight is the knight killing a helicopter, showing this happen on the screen. Notwithstanding Mark's comments I think the reviewer is spot on, as he says the combat is great and much improved, very good fun, but it is a bit weird to see a knight killing a heli; and it is!
This must be just one of many many different problems firaxis had to face in balancing a game that stretches from the stone to the nuclear age and beyond. I can't see that there is any easy answer to this, otherwise as soon as someone has a tech advantage they will be invincible...
We'll see... At least the ability to mod means that everyone can see for themselevs how tricky it is to get the right balance.
omg, can you SEE the swarms of settlers whining about the broken game?
well, if hordes settlers manage to literally displace emperors and deities every time there is a new civ release, can't see why knights can't kill helicopters
Great video review. So I must use knights against helicopters then.... rediculous.
It was prob too difficult to get it all right in time for release, it seems.
A great thing that made me laugh was the clock that can run on the screen AND you could get an alarm call too wake you from playing too long. LOL!
As I have previously said. I think the problem can be neatly summarised like this:
Gunships can't quite be classified as ground units, but can't really be classified as air units-the only unit in this category I would say. Needless to say, trying to balance this ONE standout unit has created the potential for a BUG to creep in. If it is rare enough, then it would explain why none of the beta testers picked it up. My guess is that it may end up at the top of their patch list!
As I also said, though, it could be as simple as giving the unit a +50 or +100% attack strength against mounted units, which will make knights and cavalry very vulnerable to gunships indeed.
I dunno how much chance cavalry would have against a bunch of apache.... almost no chance I would guess
Well, perhaps it could be +50% for all flying units (or a bit less if it unbalances) against all units that are not "modern" gunpowder units.
I know helis has a greater bonus against tanks. +100% I think.
! My only issue with this whole knight vs. gunship thing is that there is clearly an 'altitude' difference between the two units, which a sword/lance simply can't overcome. Personally, I wouldn't be suprised if this whole thing is just a minor little 'bug' which has crept in as a result of the gunship's 'intermediary' status-between being an air and a ground unit. I reckon we won't have to wait long to see this patched-until then, I would suggest that you give the gunship a +50% combat bonus against mounted units 
!
I don't care if there's a chance in a million somewhere that a spearman can defeat a tank, as long as it almost can't happen. And anyway, there's a lot that's more important in the game that that.
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